Why am I not as EXCITED as you!!??
03-14-12, 08:48 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
I am going to make a guess since I will be trading my Audi S5 for a GS350 F Sport in a couple of weeks. There is, no doubt, a "snob appeal" to German cars. They are perceived as being more expensive. The Japanese cars are perceived as delivering almost as much at more of a bargain price. Also, Lexus in particular still has the reputation for being "soft". (You were expecting it yourself.).
Last edited by GX4704ME; 03-14-12 at 09:21 PM.
03-14-12, 09:06 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
why not?
Because the GS350 will never be anything other than a sporty vehicle which is not a knock in the least. I guess this is bad for someone who wants a dual purpose vehicle...if that makes sense.
a younger crowd? few people in their 20s can afford a 4GS! and i expect bmw 5 series, e class, gs are all typically bought (new) by people in their 40s.
This is exactly what the Lexus General Mgr. said but given lease rates of this vehicle and many others including Germans, most cars nowadays can be had by all. The GS seems to be a car that would attract more younger buyers due to it aggressive styling.
i question how you could question this. they only have one model that in theory can be had new for under $30k (but in reality it can't). lexus has generally impeccable, upscale, luxury dealerships to go along with the vehicle range. the brand offers vehicles up to ~$120k plus the limited $375k LF-A. lexus offers just about every amenity you could want, plus probably the best audio system (LS ML) in the automotive world.
I question out of ignorance but I feel the same about Infiniti and Acura.
now that's crazy! 
My wife would agree with you!!! To correct misinformation in my original post, I told a white lie because I did a count and the number is more like 27.
ADD much?
Hahaha Probably!
as you said, exterior styling won't knock most people's socks off and the front end isn't really elegant.
the wheel fitment, particularly on the awd and wheel gap on the front wheels of the awd in particular, is frankly ridiculous. but by the time lowering springs are out you will have owned the car 14 months and be selling it anyway.
Because the GS350 will never be anything other than a sporty vehicle which is not a knock in the least. I guess this is bad for someone who wants a dual purpose vehicle...if that makes sense.
a younger crowd? few people in their 20s can afford a 4GS! and i expect bmw 5 series, e class, gs are all typically bought (new) by people in their 40s.
This is exactly what the Lexus General Mgr. said but given lease rates of this vehicle and many others including Germans, most cars nowadays can be had by all. The GS seems to be a car that would attract more younger buyers due to it aggressive styling.
i question how you could question this. they only have one model that in theory can be had new for under $30k (but in reality it can't). lexus has generally impeccable, upscale, luxury dealerships to go along with the vehicle range. the brand offers vehicles up to ~$120k plus the limited $375k LF-A. lexus offers just about every amenity you could want, plus probably the best audio system (LS ML) in the automotive world.
I question out of ignorance but I feel the same about Infiniti and Acura.
now that's crazy! My wife would agree with you!!! To correct misinformation in my original post, I told a white lie because I did a count and the number is more like 27.
ADD much?
Hahaha Probably!
as you said, exterior styling won't knock most people's socks off and the front end isn't really elegant.
the wheel fitment, particularly on the awd and wheel gap on the front wheels of the awd in particular, is frankly ridiculous. but by the time lowering springs are out you will have owned the car 14 months and be selling it anyway.
My response is above in BOLD :-)
Last edited by GX4704ME; 03-14-12 at 09:20 PM.
03-14-12, 09:25 PM
#19
Instructor
03-14-12, 10:00 PM
#21
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Thread Starter
j/k. I think the 4G looks better with fog lights than without.
Last edited by GX4704ME; 03-14-12 at 10:13 PM.
03-14-12, 10:37 PM
#22
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****LONG POST*****YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!!!******** 
I had a 2011 Mercedes GL450 and two weeks ago arrived at the conclusion that a seven seater SUV was overkill for my wife and I. No dog, no kids, just us. So three weeks ago I sold my GL and entered the market for a Luxury mid size sedan. Naturally I opted for another Mercedes because quite frankly the vault like interior, ride qualities, and overall pride of ownership I have yet to find in another car or automotive manufacturer. I decided on a 2012 E350 but there wasn't one on the lot with my desired options. The dealership was able to locate one in route. I was told the wait would be two weeks and was given a 2012 E350 loaner to drive. To be perfectly honest, there are ONLY two things that wow'ed me about the E350. 1.) The profile view 2.) The indescribable feeling of driving a Mercedes.
A few days ago while out running errands with my wife, we decided to pop into a BMW dealership just for fun. Although I have a 2000 BMW 328 beater car, overall I AM NOT A BMW FAN! For example, in 2009 I bought a brand new X5 and got rid of the POS after 2 months and 1000 miles. I am not saying they are not good cars but I was and still am underwhelmed.....well until I was given the keys to a 2012 BMW 535xi GT and holy *****! EVERYTHING about the car was to die for!! The gizmos and gadgets, drive, size, speed, fit finish, polish, poise.....EVERYTHING! After driving this beast my love for the Mercedes brand and the E350 all but vanished. Knowing that the numbers would never come back in my favor because the price tag was nearly $70k, I asked the salesman to provide me with his best price and work up some preliminary numbers. As expected, the numbers were horrible and they were not willing to budge much on the price of the car. Fine and we left!
My wife said, "Hey let's go check out the Lexus dealership across the street. She was being sarcastic because she knows how I feel about Lexus and why. Years ago I had a 2004 GX470 (hence the screen name) that I absolutely loved with one exception. What I hate most about Lexus is what others absolutely LOVE. If you want a car that's reliable with great resale value and a buttery smooth almost tranquil drive quality, get a Lexus. All their vehicles drive the same.....buttery smooth! IMHO this makes for a soulless and boring lineup. A buttery smooth and tranquil drive quality is great for a sedan or an LS cruiser, but I wanted my GX to feel like a manly man SUV but instead it felt like a Buick on a cloud! For this reason I vowed to NEVER EVER EVER EVER own/buy another Lexus!!! Their SUVs feel like cars and their cars feel like SUVs and if blindfolded one couldn't tell them apart.
Well back to the story......to appease my wife I agreed to visit the Lexus dealership. We were greeted immediately upon entering the showroom. After telling the salesman I wasn't interested in any of his cars he still insisted that I drive a 2012 ES. Since I've yet to drive a newer model Lexus, I said why not. Really I just wanted to prove to myself that nothing had changed over the years! As expected, great car, everything where it should be, absorbs bumps with the best of ease, but overall disconnected driving experience and boring to say the least. I told the salesman thanks but no thanks. He then asked if I was interested in seeing the 2013 GS350 and since I've heard so much hype about it, I said sure why not. A red w/black interior 4G was driven to the front and on first impressions I really didn't know what to think as I was torn over the exterior styling. Once inside, I was immediately reminded of the BMW 535xi GT which mean I was completely blown away! The salesman asked if I wanted to take it for a spin and out of sheer curiosity I agreed. IMMEDIATELY after pressing the throttle it was apparent that this didn't feel like ANY Lexus I've ever driven. There was a road to steering wheel to driver connection that I've only felt in German cars. The GS350 tackled uneven pavement with ease but yet bumps still felt like bumps. Playing with the ride settings made what already felt like a sporty ride even sportier. Halfway through the test drive my wife, who I've taught to NEVER tip hand while at a dealership, came straight out and said, "Wow, the E Class has nothing on this"!
Well to make a short story long, I returned the E Class loaner, canceled the E Class order, and purchased the GS350 the same night.
I would be lying if I didn't admit that I still feel some trepidations for the following reasons:
1. I am still adjusting to not driving a German car.
2. I believe a car should fit ones lifestyle and I am not sure this car fits my Mon-Fri suit and tie lifestyle. I question whether the 4G in all its sportiness is aimed more towards a younger crowd and not so much a middle 30's professional. Truthfully the Mercedes clean lines seem more of a fit whether in sporty or more formal attire.
3. I question whether the Lexus brand is still considered Luxury.
4. Even though I have gone over the interior space a thousand times, I still question how the interior space in the 4G is nearly the same or slightly larger than the E Class (comparing dimensions). The E Class just seems bigger....front and rear seat.
I've only had the car for two days but here are my Pros and Cons so far:
Pros
Overall driving dynamic
Everything about the interior!
Pandora Radio, Yelp, and Bing - Phenomenal Integration and it works!
Individual sound settings for each music source
Stereo - I didn't get ML but I will be the FIRST to say, Lexus is the first brand that I know of that closed the gap between their premium and non premium stereo offerings. I am a sound snob and up until the 4G, would NEVER buy a car without premium audio. In the 4G the difference is negligible and not worth another $1500. Not saying there isn't a difference but not enough of a difference to justify the extra cost. ML is great BTW!
Fit and finish - As expected from Lexus.
Ambient Lighting - The best placement of lights I've seen in any vehicle.
Glove compartment - Very spacious.
Reliability - Don't anticipate spending lots of time in the service department.
Resale Value - Not expecting to be majorly upside down at sell or trade in.
Infiniti-esque Styling - A front end that's distinguishable amongst a sea of look alikes.
Cons:
Front grill - Not the entire grill but the lower half.
No sunglasses holder - No biggie but would be nice to have.
Mouse - Wish there was a way to change the sensitivity.
Nooks and crannies - Would be nice to have a few more.
Body style - Wish there was a version that offered a classier front end.
Trunk - Doesn't have hydraulic arms.
To wrap up, I am a car nut and even though I am in my mid 30s, I've owned over 33 cars. The average time I keep a car is 14 months and then off to the next. With that said, I've driven or owned most of what's out there to include 3 Mercedes, 2 BMWs, Lexus, a few Acuras, GMC, etc.
Sorry for the long post but usually when I get a new car I am bouncing off the walls and giddy with excitement. For whatever reason I am completely neutral when it comes to my new 4G. Someone....anyone....please help me get to the root of what's bothering me.
I had a 2011 Mercedes GL450 and two weeks ago arrived at the conclusion that a seven seater SUV was overkill for my wife and I. No dog, no kids, just us. So three weeks ago I sold my GL and entered the market for a Luxury mid size sedan. Naturally I opted for another Mercedes because quite frankly the vault like interior, ride qualities, and overall pride of ownership I have yet to find in another car or automotive manufacturer. I decided on a 2012 E350 but there wasn't one on the lot with my desired options. The dealership was able to locate one in route. I was told the wait would be two weeks and was given a 2012 E350 loaner to drive. To be perfectly honest, there are ONLY two things that wow'ed me about the E350. 1.) The profile view 2.) The indescribable feeling of driving a Mercedes.
A few days ago while out running errands with my wife, we decided to pop into a BMW dealership just for fun. Although I have a 2000 BMW 328 beater car, overall I AM NOT A BMW FAN! For example, in 2009 I bought a brand new X5 and got rid of the POS after 2 months and 1000 miles. I am not saying they are not good cars but I was and still am underwhelmed.....well until I was given the keys to a 2012 BMW 535xi GT and holy *****!
EVERYTHING about the car was to die for!! The gizmos and gadgets, drive, size, speed, fit finish, polish, poise.....EVERYTHING! After driving this beast my love for the Mercedes brand and the E350 all but vanished. Knowing that the numbers would never come back in my favor because the price tag was nearly $70k, I asked the salesman to provide me with his best price and work up some preliminary numbers. As expected, the numbers were horrible and they were not willing to budge much on the price of the car. Fine and we left!My wife said, "Hey let's go check out the Lexus dealership across the street. She was being sarcastic because she knows how I feel about Lexus and why. Years ago I had a 2004 GX470 (hence the screen name) that I absolutely loved with one exception. What I hate most about Lexus is what others absolutely LOVE. If you want a car that's reliable with great resale value and a buttery smooth almost tranquil drive quality, get a Lexus. All their vehicles drive the same.....buttery smooth! IMHO this makes for a soulless and boring lineup. A buttery smooth and tranquil drive quality is great for a sedan or an LS cruiser, but I wanted my GX to feel like a manly man SUV but instead it felt like a Buick on a cloud! For this reason I vowed to NEVER EVER EVER EVER own/buy another Lexus!!! Their SUVs feel like cars and their cars feel like SUVs and if blindfolded one couldn't tell them apart.
Well back to the story......to appease my wife I agreed to visit the Lexus dealership. We were greeted immediately upon entering the showroom. After telling the salesman I wasn't interested in any of his cars he still insisted that I drive a 2012 ES. Since I've yet to drive a newer model Lexus, I said why not. Really I just wanted to prove to myself that nothing had changed over the years! As expected, great car, everything where it should be, absorbs bumps with the best of ease, but overall disconnected driving experience and boring to say the least. I told the salesman thanks but no thanks. He then asked if I was interested in seeing the 2013 GS350 and since I've heard so much hype about it, I said sure why not. A red w/black interior 4G was driven to the front and on first impressions I really didn't know what to think as I was torn over the exterior styling. Once inside, I was immediately reminded of the BMW 535xi GT which mean I was completely blown away! The salesman asked if I wanted to take it for a spin and out of sheer curiosity I agreed. IMMEDIATELY after pressing the throttle it was apparent that this didn't feel like ANY Lexus I've ever driven. There was a road to steering wheel to driver connection that I've only felt in German cars. The GS350 tackled uneven pavement with ease but yet bumps still felt like bumps. Playing with the ride settings made what already felt like a sporty ride even sportier. Halfway through the test drive my wife, who I've taught to NEVER tip hand while at a dealership, came straight out and said, "Wow, the E Class has nothing on this"!
Well to make a short story long,
I returned the E Class loaner, canceled the E Class order, and purchased the GS350 the same night.I would be lying if I didn't admit that I still feel some trepidations for the following reasons:
1. I am still adjusting to not driving a German car.
2. I believe a car should fit ones lifestyle and I am not sure this car fits my Mon-Fri suit and tie lifestyle. I question whether the 4G in all its sportiness is aimed more towards a younger crowd and not so much a middle 30's professional. Truthfully the Mercedes clean lines seem more of a fit whether in sporty or more formal attire.
3. I question whether the Lexus brand is still considered Luxury.
4. Even though I have gone over the interior space a thousand times, I still question how the interior space in the 4G is nearly the same or slightly larger than the E Class (comparing dimensions). The E Class just seems bigger....front and rear seat.
I've only had the car for two days but here are my Pros and Cons so far:
Pros
Overall driving dynamic
Everything about the interior!
Pandora Radio, Yelp, and Bing - Phenomenal Integration and it works!
Individual sound settings for each music source
Stereo - I didn't get ML but I will be the FIRST to say, Lexus is the first brand that I know of that closed the gap between their premium and non premium stereo offerings. I am a sound snob and up until the 4G, would NEVER buy a car without premium audio. In the 4G the difference is negligible and not worth another $1500. Not saying there isn't a difference but not enough of a difference to justify the extra cost. ML is great BTW!
Fit and finish - As expected from Lexus.
Ambient Lighting - The best placement of lights I've seen in any vehicle.
Glove compartment - Very spacious.
Reliability - Don't anticipate spending lots of time in the service department.
Resale Value - Not expecting to be majorly upside down at sell or trade in.
Infiniti-esque Styling - A front end that's distinguishable amongst a sea of look alikes.
Cons:
Front grill - Not the entire grill but the lower half.
No sunglasses holder - No biggie but would be nice to have.
Mouse - Wish there was a way to change the sensitivity.
Nooks and crannies - Would be nice to have a few more.
Body style - Wish there was a version that offered a classier front end.
Trunk - Doesn't have hydraulic arms.
To wrap up, I am a car nut and even though I am in my mid 30s, I've owned over 33 cars. The average time I keep a car is 14 months and then off to the next. With that said, I've driven or owned most of what's out there to include 3 Mercedes, 2 BMWs, Lexus, a few Acuras, GMC, etc.
Sorry for the long post but usually when I get a new car I am bouncing off the walls and giddy with excitement. For whatever reason I am completely neutral when it comes to my new 4G. Someone....anyone....please help me get to the root of what's bothering me.
At the end of the day what should matter is if your happy with the car you drive. Who cares how you look getting out of it or if your proud you drive a Mercedes.
I think its more important that after a long day at the office you can get into a car thats comfortable yet sporty that will allow you to have some fun and detox until you get home and be proud of the fact that your successful and can afford a 60k car.
and before you say drive a Mercedes and you will know why trust me I have. My family has a GL and S class that I drive regularly....
just my .02......
03-14-12, 10:58 PM
#23
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Thread Starter
Nah I would never say that because you missed the point of the original post and discussions. Besides, I've never been one to engage folks who are looking for an online argument or debate.
03-15-12, 12:30 AM
#24
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My LS (as well as my previous 7 series and S-class) also have the regular non-hydraulic struts- it is so they can integrate the electric trunk lid motor.
As for removing soft close... that surprised me a bit too but it's probably to convince people to buy the power trunk lid option.
03-15-12, 12:41 AM
#25
The hydraulic trunk struts were removed in order to add the power trunk closer (full power, not just soft close).
My LS (as well as my previous 7 series and S-class) also have the regular non-hydraulic struts- it is so they can integrate the electric trunk lid motor.
As for removing soft close... that surprised me a bit too but it's probably to convince people to buy the power trunk lid option.
My LS (as well as my previous 7 series and S-class) also have the regular non-hydraulic struts- it is so they can integrate the electric trunk lid motor.
As for removing soft close... that surprised me a bit too but it's probably to convince people to buy the power trunk lid option.
03-15-12, 01:06 AM
#26
I am going to make a guess since I will be trading my Audi S5 for a GS350 F Sport in a couple of weeks. There is, no doubt, a "snob appeal" to German cars. They are perceived as being more expensive. The Japanese cars are perceived as delivering almost as much at more of a bargain price. Also, Lexus in particular still has the reputation for being "soft". (You were expecting it yourself.)
I was also wrestling with the fact that I was trading in an Audi for a Lexus because it might be viewed as a "step down", but let's face it... Lexus has made a car that can compete with and best the Germans and I consider myself a smart buyer for getting it for less than I would have paid for a comparably equipped A7, 5 Series, etc. I don't really care if anyone else knows it. I get to enjoy it every day and feel good about my purchase.
I believe Lexus is perceived as a second-tier luxury brand mostly because it is RXs and ESs that are prevalent on the streets. If Lexus can do to the LS what they did to the GS and make it more desirable for folks to move over to the German brands they can fget closer a top spot in the luxury market. That would bode well for all of us who own Lexuses.
The only thing that might bother me when I trade cars is that the S5 is pretty much revered as a beautiful design by everyone, and the GS is more polarizing. It definitely looks Lexus-like in its exterior design (which is good and bad)... sleek in some areas and heavy in others... but there is nothing that special about the new 5 Series either and (no offense) I've never liked the E350 design. Whatever, I figure I will be INSIDE the car most of the time, which is where I will really appreciate it.
I'm sure you'll grow to love it in time. Keep us posted.
I was also wrestling with the fact that I was trading in an Audi for a Lexus because it might be viewed as a "step down", but let's face it... Lexus has made a car that can compete with and best the Germans and I consider myself a smart buyer for getting it for less than I would have paid for a comparably equipped A7, 5 Series, etc. I don't really care if anyone else knows it. I get to enjoy it every day and feel good about my purchase.
I believe Lexus is perceived as a second-tier luxury brand mostly because it is RXs and ESs that are prevalent on the streets. If Lexus can do to the LS what they did to the GS and make it more desirable for folks to move over to the German brands they can fget closer a top spot in the luxury market. That would bode well for all of us who own Lexuses.
The only thing that might bother me when I trade cars is that the S5 is pretty much revered as a beautiful design by everyone, and the GS is more polarizing. It definitely looks Lexus-like in its exterior design (which is good and bad)... sleek in some areas and heavy in others... but there is nothing that special about the new 5 Series either and (no offense) I've never liked the E350 design. Whatever, I figure I will be INSIDE the car most of the time, which is where I will really appreciate it.
I'm sure you'll grow to love it in time. Keep us posted.
03-15-12, 06:50 AM
#28
Lexus Champion
I would be interested in your comparison of your GS with the E350, in what ways does the Merc lag that made your wife say that it has nothing on the GS?
03-15-12, 07:02 AM
#29
First of all, a very good post. I was truly amused at your comment about it being aimed towards a younger crowd, then you say you are in your 30's!!! When you get to be my age (59) you are going to realize just how funny that sounded.
My only other comment has to do with the sunglasses holder (not having one). My 2010 does not either and it drives me nuts. How a car in this class doesn't have one is beyond me. Seems like Lexus just doesn't want to sweat the details. I have a thing about screwing up things that you are reminded of every time you get in a car, and this is one of them. Needless to say I can and have lived without it. But the competition is very good these days in every class of car, and little stuff can mean a lot.
Thanks again for the great post, and congrats on the new car.
My only other comment has to do with the sunglasses holder (not having one). My 2010 does not either and it drives me nuts. How a car in this class doesn't have one is beyond me. Seems like Lexus just doesn't want to sweat the details. I have a thing about screwing up things that you are reminded of every time you get in a car, and this is one of them. Needless to say I can and have lived without it. But the competition is very good these days in every class of car, and little stuff can mean a lot.
Thanks again for the great post, and congrats on the new car.
