G Star

iTrader: (2)

Agreed!

And if anybody here bothers to visit the ISF forums, they'd know that current ISF owners cross shopped M and AMG models or even came from them previously. Of course, some ISF owners have sold and went back or cross shopped other cars, it is natural and it means that the market is competitive.

M will always have the largest interest with younger buyers because they have the cool factor 'the ultimate driving machine'.

J.P.

'

And those same people will not care about a hybrid or mpg..... I know what DC power can do, it can do much more than any gas or diesel engine can or will do, but I still do not want it. it really is about the experience for many or most when making a car buying decision like a gs-f, m5,s6,whatever......

People can talk numbers all day long, putting together an amazing driving experience on paper and making it happen in real life is two different things and only a few can do it and replicate it.....

Tell me the v10 M5, the LFA or even a F430 doesn’t give you a purple vein diamond cutter when you stomp on the gas......

same way with me for boats, do I want two TT 2jz's or two 557 CID big blocks when I turn the ignition? easy answer for me anyway

LexFather

AGREED 100%:thumbup M, AMG all started with 1 or 2 models. It took them DECADES to expand the lineup and today with mixed results. Audi RS still hasn't really caught on here and is just as limited, the RS4.

We now have a what 4-5 year old IS F forum filled with people that owned M3s, AMG etc that bought an IS F. We have a LFA forum with owners here that bought the LFA.

Quite frankly Lexus is the only Asian brand with the ***** to make cars to compete in this class. Lexus now is the sportiest Asian luxury brand, like it or not. The LFA just beat the GTO for crying out loud in EVO.

Now the GS F is coming. They are expanding the lineup.

I wrote it before in my LFA article, everyone people say "that Lexus ain't gonna sell" it does. People want a high performance Lexus that combines super sport with Lexus qualities like reliability, dealer service etc.

KJH

It seems to me a pretty good business case could be made for punching out the 5L IS-F motor to an honest 6L. Such a motor, with a decent set of cams (read better than the current IS-F offerings) could easily make 550 bhp and 450 lb-ft. From my perspective, this route would be less expensive than a derivative of the LFA V10 and a hybrid GS-F.

One of the things I found most intriguing about Akio Toyoda's comments at Pebble Beach was his description of this new, autonomous Lexus unit reporting directly to him. Those guys convinced him that a fundamental change in the GS's driving experience and vehicle dynamics was the path to righteousness for the 4th-gen GS. He also emphasized this unit's ability to truly listen to Lexus customers when it comes to delivering new vehicles. I hope the people that populate that unit are listening to us with regard to the GS-F.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

amen, very very well said. most isf owners i know, they cross shopped with amg and m when they were deciding. that makes a lot of sense and that shows the influence of the isf. it's important and it's working!!!

ever since the isf came out i already said lexus did it right with the isf, at least in terms of making a comparable competition.

LexFather

Agreed. The IS F clearly shows there is a market for Lexus super saloons. Hell the IS F might be loaded but it costs MORE than a base M3/C63 etc.

I think people still can't wrap their heads around the fact LEXUS entered this market before the other supposedly sporty Asian brands did. You want the sportiest luxuy sedan from Asia, you have to buy a LEXUS.

syzygy

If you asked me a year ago what I would get for my next car, I would've told you that in the interest of variety, I'd almost certainly look hard at BMW M/Mercedes AMG as a logical upgrade from the IS350/335i/G37 tier.

Now that I've seen Lexus continually improve the ISF's suspension, I'm thinking that I'll have to give the future ISF some serious thought.

Over my two years of ownership of the IS350, I've really grown attached (emotionally) to the car. I feel like the car is an expression of myself, in a sense, and I feel like I'd lose that if I switched brands. I'm extremely pleased that Lexus has improved the driving dynamics of the ISF since its inception in '08.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like the ISF should be my next car.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yup, objective people WILL choose. although i didn't get the isf, but i did consider it dearly and it's just not a car for me that's all. but respect is there

although if you get on other forums, you will still see arrogant people saying they will only get m3 or c63. well, what can you do right?

i will sincerely suggest you to really drive all the cars and see which one fits you best. they all drive and feel VERY differently. i am not saying which one is best, because only you can tell. for example to me, m3 ended up the best choice and i still have no regret. however when i sit back and think about it, if my priorities on this car change SLIGHTLY, i could have easily swung to c63 or isf like that

jjscsix

I agree that it's an unbacked statement. It's my opinion.

You are sure they know what they are doing? Then why has the GS been such a flop the past few years? Why did the Sport package on the LS turn out to be such a turd that they collect dust on dealers lots?

I'm not saying Lexus is stupid, I just don't think they are considered a player in the performance arena. Selling a handful of exotic LSA's is not proof that they are there yet. And I see so many more AMG's and Ms than IS-F's it isn't funny.

But I agree that it's just my opinion and I'm glad to hear other opinions.

MR_F1

Not in the least. Of course it doesn't mean much on paper, but in reality the GS F would weigh anywhere from 200-500lbs more than the carbon chassis LFA. Formula one cars weigh bugger all, so of course they go like crazy. The gearbox would compensate for a torque deficiency, but the ratios would take away form the driving experience unless done exceptionally well.

I guess it all depends on the experience you are looking for. I think larger cars are more suited to be bruisers (like the IS F) rather than screamers (LFA). Just my perspective.

And yes, I agree. The biggest issue is cost. The V10 engine would put the price of the GS through the roof.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well the e60 m5 has 383tq and 4000lb, when that car goes it goes even harder than the m3. as long as the gearing is done right, high rev engine is as sweet as it can get imho. driving the m3 and m5, as long as you keep the car in the right gear, the car can go pretty crazy.

so overall i think it can be done in the gsf too. but of course, if one has to argue, drivability wise, higher tq number might drive smoother at lower rpm, amg is a great example on that spectrum. but when it comes to more extreme cars like this, i can go either way

LexIS007

iTrader: (1)

Thats what im talking about! If the GS-F or IS-F gets Turbo's, then Lexus will have sure winners. As far as V8's?....im not a huge fan of Japanese cars stuffing V8's in their sports cars. I think Japanese car makers are the masters of forced induction and should continue that tradition.

STIG

Sometimes, I get tired driving my M3 in the city. the car makes less power than accord under 4k rpm, and I look like an idiot gunning from the red light to another in the city.

V10 GS-F with LFA motor is probably not going to happen. But if it does, i will sell my ********* to get one. Actually, I should be able to get 10 GS-Fs by selling them.

spwolf

i wonder what will happen at the end... I dont think they will do an hybrid simply because it is market that doesnt accept compromises... then again, everyone seems fine with M3 going 6cyl, so I wonder.

They already reduced the weight of GS450h by 150lbs... i bet they also improved battery output.

but to make GS-F hybrid, they could not use V6. They would have to use at least IS-F's V8 plus hybrid system with much stronger battery output (current one is 47hp). This could be done with lion batteries but you would still have an issue of powering this for longer time on track, there would simply be not enough juice available.

So GS-F Hybrid would have to be an V8 PHEV hybrid which you can recharge with a plug to get some extra 100+ hp of electric motor power, and maybe 10-15 miles of electric PHEV mode.

Then you would still have the problem of "feel" with the CVT.

You would end up with fast car, still not heavier than M5, and with some crazy torque, 15 miles of EV mode and yet it would never be rated as "better" by old farts who write reviews, but rather "different".

So honestly, for a conceivable time, I dont see Lexus doing GS-F Hybrid.

However I think that GS450h F-Sport with 0-60 in 4.x seconds and better handling than IS-F being good test bed to see if thats what journalists and reviewers want their fast cars to be like. And I doubt Lexus will make any decisions on GS-F before they see response for GS450h F-Sport.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

It was also your opinion that the leaked pics of the 4GS was horrid until the unveiling changed your mind.

Why are you using the 3GS performance values when you know the performance values of the 4GS? Its handling has been recently praised (through the roof) when auto journalists were invited to test drive base and F sport 4GS. We know Lexus is capable of it when they want to, if they were going for performance in the 3GS we would've known it. They also made it a religious mission to NOT update the car much, no wonder why they didn't get sales, they didn't try.

Your original point was that nobody wanted to buy a 80k+ Lexus high performance sedan. What I'm saying is that people will buy it, will they even out or beat M/AMG sales? no, this is a given already but people will buy it. We've seen with the ISF that Lexus F brand is valuable. Honestly, I could care less for F-Sport.

Why did LS Fsports sit on the lot? people buy them for the luxury/pillow-soft ride, Lexus is offering options and that is what they need to to, it is the necessary steps to inform people that Lexus is heading in that direction.