4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
#1336
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
I wonder why Lexus thinks they can't sell a V8 mid-size sports sedan?
BMW sells a lot of them. Infiniti has strong sales. Hyundai has been doing well with V8 Genesis models, and they are now launching an R-Spec version with even more power.
I think there is market potential if they had enough power. I'm sure the GS460 would have had a lot more takers if they hadn't detuned it from 380hp.
I also think that if it is a V6 only model range, then it will fall from a prestige standpoint into a peer group consisting of V6 only cars like the Acura RL and Lincoln MKS.
GSF would be a good halo model for the GS but if they don't have GSF on day 1 then peoples perceptions will be formed around a V6 line-up.
BMW sells a lot of them. Infiniti has strong sales. Hyundai has been doing well with V8 Genesis models, and they are now launching an R-Spec version with even more power.
I think there is market potential if they had enough power. I'm sure the GS460 would have had a lot more takers if they hadn't detuned it from 380hp.
I also think that if it is a V6 only model range, then it will fall from a prestige standpoint into a peer group consisting of V6 only cars like the Acura RL and Lincoln MKS.
GSF would be a good halo model for the GS but if they don't have GSF on day 1 then peoples perceptions will be formed around a V6 line-up.
but yes, i am very much against the idea of taking away the v8 from the normal gs line, it loses that prestige status
gsf from day 1? why? m cars are always 1 yr after model lineup debut. amg cars also come after the normal lineup is released. i think 1 yr time frame is ok, but more than that and it's getting diluted
Actually we don't have a break down of V-8 sales. 5 series sales overall are great. The m37/56 has flopped, they only sold 870 or so cars last month and it hasn't been out a year. Genesis never met sales goals.
Ten to fifteen years ago people were buying V-8s sedans like the E430, GS 400, 540 b/c there were not any other options. No Camaro, no Genesis, no Infinit, the Mustang performance was no better. Mags called them the V-8 pony cars of the day.
Today you can easily get a V-8 in different cars, 300C, Challenger etc.
I want to see a V-8 GS and a GS F but if they go with V-8 only in the GS F I can live with that.
If Lexus completely drops a V-8 from the GS line and no GS F I will likely move on to the IS F or LS sport when that time comes (if I stay with Lexus).
Ten to fifteen years ago people were buying V-8s sedans like the E430, GS 400, 540 b/c there were not any other options. No Camaro, no Genesis, no Infinit, the Mustang performance was no better. Mags called them the V-8 pony cars of the day.
Today you can easily get a V-8 in different cars, 300C, Challenger etc.
I want to see a V-8 GS and a GS F but if they go with V-8 only in the GS F I can live with that.
If Lexus completely drops a V-8 from the GS line and no GS F I will likely move on to the IS F or LS sport when that time comes (if I stay with Lexus).
hahahaha i think "if i stay with lexus" is the key. the way i see it, for one looking at a certain segment (gs size), it's really hard to justify the change to isf or ls sport
just the same with e550 vs e63 and 550 vs m5, they are like 20k difference. same with is350 vs isf, it's quite a gap on pricing
#1337
i really don't see that happening. a normal v8 gs is what, 60k? if lexus ever makes a gsf, it will not be 60k, it will be substantially more (and if it's really 60k, either lexus is smoking something or the car is a joke). people looking at v8 gs (or equivalent) won't be looking at gsf.
just the same with e550 vs e63 and 550 vs m5, they are like 20k difference. same with is350 vs isf, it's quite a gap on pricing
just the same with e550 vs e63 and 550 vs m5, they are like 20k difference. same with is350 vs isf, it's quite a gap on pricing
#1338
Re GSF pricing, it depends how high they go. Above MSRP of 80k I think it will be a tough sell without the pedigree, but yeah, I wouldn't expect it to sell for 60k.
The 470hp all aluminum Jaguar XJ Supercharged starts at $87k. I don't think the GSF should be more than that, regardless of how the M5 is priced.
The 470hp all aluminum Jaguar XJ Supercharged starts at $87k. I don't think the GSF should be more than that, regardless of how the M5 is priced.
#1339
That 20k price difference is getting pretty hard to justify paying given how good the 550i has become. I heard on bimmerfest that the 550xi with the $3k Dinan Stage 1 upgrade, is faster than an E60 M5 on track.
#1340
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
amg and m cars aren't for everyone. imho it's cross that line "money for the value".
#1341
We are in the market to buy a new car this year. As it stands, I am only interested in V8 models. There is no way I would sell one of my V8 sport sedans for a V6...even if it has 320 hp. I want the grunt of the V8, the sound of the V8 and the prestige of the V8. There is nothing more fun than a torque monsterious V8. I think it would be a mistake for Lexus to drop the V8 model, even if they bring a GSF on board! Currently the Mercedes E550 is looking like the winner for the money. As far as I'm concerned, a middle weight, sport sedan like this must offer a V8. I would love to love the new GS, but if it looks anything like the bland car in the photos, I'll pass.
#1342
Driver School Candidate
FYI, according to Japanese car magazine, they expect the price of GSF in Japan will be in range between 9M yen and 10M yen.
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold at the price of 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold at the price of 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
Last edited by NKAZ; 02-09-11 at 09:25 PM. Reason: revision of grammatical errors
#1343
FYI, according to Japanese car magazine, they expect the price of GSF in Japan will be in range between 9M yen and 10M yen.
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold the price between 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold the price between 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
#1344
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
FYI, according to Japanese car magazine, they expect the price of GSF in Japan will be in range between 9M yen and 10M yen.
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold the price between 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
In Japan the base model of GS460 is sold the price between 6.75M yen.
In the US, GS460's MSRP is $54.6k.
If Lexus raise the GSF price in the US as same as in Japan, it will be between $72.6k and $80.8k (33%-48% higher than the base) in the US.
I'm not sure whether the information in the magazine is accurate or not.
BTW, the price of GS460 in the US is much cheaper than the price in Japan.
$54.6k is about 4.74M yen (at the rate of $1=85 yen).
#1345
Driver School Candidate
I think you guys are right.
However, for us, Japanese, 10M yen is too expensive for GSF.
If Lexus delivers GSF as the same design as the picture I posted before at this price, I may go with GT-R.
#1346
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
for comparison sake though, how much is a reasonably loaded m5 / e63 over there? that's what you compare to
#1348
Right now the only luxury car company's you can count on to deliver value are Hyundai, Cadillac and Lexus. Time will tell if Lexus chooses to stay as a value play, or price itself out like Infiniti.
The fact that the LS460 is $20k less than its competitors, leads me to think that the GSF will offer a similar value advantage. I think this is important because this is the reason Lexus' don't depreciate as much as other brands.
Last edited by *Batman*; 02-10-11 at 06:06 AM.
#1349
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
and what does engine by itself has to do with the price of a car? coz' it's v10? v8 in e63 makes the car 100k. there are a lot more that goes into a car to determine the price (granted, that doesn't make me think 100k on e63 and m5 is reasonable)
#1350
if it has the lfa engine, put it the other way, i don't think it will be under 100k. you have to read about the construction of that engine
and what does engine by itself has to do with the price of a car? coz' it's v10? v8 in e63 makes the car 100k. there are a lot more that goes into a car to determine the price (granted, that doesn't make me think 100k on e63 and m5 is reasonable)
and what does engine by itself has to do with the price of a car? coz' it's v10? v8 in e63 makes the car 100k. there are a lot more that goes into a car to determine the price (granted, that doesn't make me think 100k on e63 and m5 is reasonable)
Conversely, if you look at the X5:
xDrive50, 4.4 V8 Twinpower Turbo with 400 hp and 450 lbft of torque, $58k
X5M, 4.4 V8 M Twinpower Turbo with 555hp and 500 lbft of torque, $85k
Dinan xDrive50 4.4V8 Twinpower Turbo has 495hp and 570 lbft, $61k
So option 3 - Dinan significantly reduces the price-value of the M model because they can achieve similar engine performance increase at a fraction of cost. Yes there are other differences - suspension, brakes, cosmetics. But this option 3 didn't exist when these cars were naturally aspirated.
So my point is simple - the move by German OEMs to FI has diminished the value proposition of their tuner sub-brands.