AustnLexus

In 2005, I purchased my 2006 GS 300, new from the dealer, with the intention of driving it for 200k miles. When I hit 147k, I was told by the an Austin Lexus dealer that I needed a new transmission - VSC/Error Code P2757, $5,100. In doing my research on forums like this, this seems to be a very common problem with GS/IS Lexus built around this time frame. In this same vein, I would assume only a small fraction of Lexus owners that experienced this transmission issue would post on sites such as CL. There are probably thousands of Lexus owners having the same issues.

So we were either:
1) all sold a vehicle with a defective transmission (transmissions should last longer than what these are), or
2) the information from Lexus about the lifetime fluid warranty was inaccurate and they should have included transmission fluid changes in their normal service work.

And now because of the above, Lexus and their dealers are profiting from these defective transmissions. Now I realize that many would say that the attorneys are the only ones that profit from class action lawsuits. I disagree. I believe a concerted effort by enough Lexus owners can force Lexus to either repair these transmissions or provide some sort of financial credit to repair them through a third party. What are everyone's thoughts?

Othic

Its a car that's almost 10 years old with almost 150k miles. What exactly do you expect from a trans with that age and mileage? Think of how harsh an environment that transmission operates in. It may be something as simple as a shift solenoid. I don't understand why people get all sue happy when something fails. With that kind of mileage I usually give a customer a choice of a new/rebuilt trans or fix the actual problem with no guarantees of how long the other components might last.

Just drop the pan and take out SLU solenoid and measure resistance. It should be between 5 -5.6 ohms. That's the easiest check. Its not the most accurate check though, I had one that was bad but still showed within spec. But when you checked from the ECU to solenoid ground it was way out of spec.

Here's a picture I took from TIS earlier today for someone else. Doesn't give much info but it shows the most likely trouble area.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

Although I agree with Othic I must say the second point has some bearing as I think if people were able to change the tranny fluid the chances would be lower in the tranny failing.

Othic

You can change it though..

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

I thought it was sealed and required a special tool to even open it.

Othic

Just need a 5mm hex for the drain and overflow plug. You'll need a techstream to monitor fluid temp though

Gotcha350

While I agree it can be changed the majority of the Lexus dealers don't want to touch it until 100k which is ridiculous. If I want to pay to change it then why deny it. I'm sure they don't want to assume liability if it fails after a fluid change but my 08 has 65k. I keep my cars a long time and feel very uneasy about leaving any fluid in that long regardless of mileage.

This foolishness was created because the market for ownership is leasing more than purchasing. Lexus doesn't give a **** what happens after the warranty expires. If you claim that the transmission doesn't need fluid changes then give owners a minimum of 10yrs/unlimited warranty on just the transmission.

A transmission especially with today's technology and engineering should last a hell of a lot longer than 10 yrs and 150k. Hell my 94 Legend has only had filter and fluid changes and still shift like the day I bought it in 94. Even the POS transmission in the 99 TL I gave to my sister has held up well with over 240k on it. If it really lifetime why does everyone all of a sudden say change it at 100k....and thats damn near every manufacturer.

These car companies need to stop worrying about the short term cost of ownership. It was their long term reliability that put them in the position they are in.

tatumjonj

I don't like knee jerk lawsuits but I also don't like the manufacturer recommending no maintenance on a particular product and then reaming you coming through the door when it fails.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they don't want to do the maintenance because they don't want to assume the liability if it breaks. Which makes you wonder why is a transmission different than an engine? Because if the dealership services your vehicle from day 1 and it breaks at 125,000 miles they're probably not going to assume any liability for that.

AustnLexus

To Othic's point - I expect when I spend this much money on a car brand the promotes itself as one of quality, to have a transmission last more then 150k. Also, this is not a one-off situation. In searching ClubLexus and/or the web, the P2757 or transmission replacement is a pretty common problem with a number of Lexus/Toyota vehicles - all sharing the same or similar transmission. Couple of sites referenced GS/IS and Toyota Tundras using the A960E or A760E trannies. If you Google any one of these models and P2757 or transmission - torque converter problems, you'll be overwhelmed with the responses. And, I would assume a quite a few 06-2010 models still have low miles, just wait until they get >130k, I bet you see more occurrences of this issue.

I realize that I threw the whole lawsuit comment out there flippantly, but I wanted to garner everyone's attention. In my opinion, there are (3) ways to get a corporate conglomerate like Toyota/Lexus to act. It's either 1) government interaction, 2) concerted negative press/pr campaign, or 3) a lawsuit or threat thereof.

Regarding 1) government interaction - I simply don't know if we rallied the vehicle owners that had this issue to report it to the NHTSA if that open an investigation into these faulty transmissions and just how long would that take.

2) Negative PR campaign - could definitely be done. There are more and more examples of consumers using social media to get corporations to act. Something like this would make future Lexus owners question buying a new Lexus model.

3) Lawsuit - imagine a large number of these vehicle owners joining forces and successfully forcing Toyota/Lexus to take ownership and fixing their defective transmissions.

Again, from my perspective, any car purchased after the '90's should last well over 200k miles, especially one from Lexus. Furthermore, I believe Toyota/Lexus needs to fix what they defectively manufactured. Currently, Lexus and their dealers are profiting from their poor workmanship.

ultimase

The problem with the above post is there's a lot of "I believe," "should," "I expected," and "I assume." That's your perception, there's no contract with Toyota that fulfills any of that. You are assigning value intrinsically to their reputation for building quality vehicles, but there's nothing beyond that.

You're free to believe what you'd like, but there's nothing that says Toyota is on the same page. Toyota is only going to be responsible for a vehicle up until the warranty is up. Anyone buying a vehicle beyond that warranty is taking a chance. Normally Toyota has a good reputation in terms of longevity, but there's no guarantee implied or otherwise.

In answering your points above.

1. doubtful, and NHTSA wouldn't really care unless the defect is causing a dangerous situation. The VW diesel fuel pump situation was watched closely by NHTSA because the vehicle would loose all power on the highway. It's well documented, and been show to occur across several years of the diesel engine. Guess what? They closed the case, and that's on a vehicle that's under 5 years old. On a vehicle that's 10 years old? Slim to no chance. But they have an online form that you can fill out.

2. well pretty much has been done for you already, you're not likely to buy another Toyota at this point. Toyota understands that, but simply doesn't see the liability or really the reason to fix a vehicle of this mileage or age. Now here's a question though, have you tried to call Toyota customer care? I think the chances are slim to none still, but corporate might see you as a future customer that they do not want to loose. The dealership see's you as customer that got 147k out of one of their vehicles and thinks you're either going to buy the transmission or buy another car.

3. Ah american, the land of the free and the home of the brave. And lawsuits. Yes of course a lawsuit is always an option, you don't have to be right, you just need to fill out the paperwork and pay the fee. This might be more complicated that you thought though as fixing the transmission may end up being more money more than small claims court, and Toyota has some serious lawyers on staff. At this point I'd bet that most lawyers would be itching to try to get into dieselgate which is literally a slam dunk case, versus a case with this much work and so little change of success.

BinaryJay

Every time a thread like this appears people are surprised when I tell them that the official Lexus maintenance schedule for these cars in Canada has transmission fluid changes listed every 96,000 KM (60,000 Miles).

I change mine every 3 years or so regardless of mileage (and for me, that's usually only around 4000 miles). It's not expensive as long as you don't take it to Lexus so I don't know why anybody would roll the dice on it and not do it for 150,000 miles.

Othic

That's weird. The manual in TIS says something completely different.

dkobryant

The transmission is guaranteed for the "life" of the car. But "life" doesn't mean forever, according to Lexus. It's something close to 100K miles. Never changing transmission oil is a ridiculous idea, and part of what's causing so many to fail at around 100k miles. Transmission shops will drain the oil, but they cannot get it all out at once, so they have to change it a couple of times over a 12 month period. The 2757 code can be triggered by thick or gummy fluid or dirty oil. It is very sensitive to changes in hydraulic pressure, so try the oil change first to see if that fixes it. If not, then replace the solenoid and do another oil change with filter ($500). Lexus recommends getting a new tranny and will not change the solenoid when this code appears. Some Lexus mechanics told me it is too much of a liability, because they might get blamed for future problems in the transmission (other solenoids, etc.) They used to change torque converter solenoids, but too many people blamed them for other problems that came later, and they were held responsible for the entire tranny. Now they tell people "you're just putting a band aid on a larger problem," which isn't necessarily true. But they'll try to talk you out of it. Some people actually have bad torque converters and need a total rebuild ($3000). For me, it was just a bad solenoid. The symptoms were mild or barely noticeable: at lower speeds it felt like the car chose higher gears. The solenoid fixed everything, and the car runs better than ever with no codes for the last 10,000 miles.

Steve2424

Seems like an ongoing debate about the transmissions in the 3rd gen GS. While a lot of members have shared their gripes about tranny woes and it either being the fluid variance (too little, or too old) or solenoid malfunction, I find it odd Lexus chose a unit of this type, and offers no maintenance on the unit. If they "recommend" it be serviced by a Lexus certified tech (ironically a caveat so to avoid the one-off customer going to ABC Tranny's and then experiencing a malfunctioning unit -- think lawsuit avoidance here*) isn't this a game they're playing to avoid the initial post recommending a lawsuit against Lexus if someone were to go that route? If in the past they've had to bite the bullet for performing work on their own product with future problems shortly thereafter, then Lexus should step up to the plate, train their mechanics PROPERLY about their vehicles, and provide adequate maintenance servicing.

I mean the dealers refuse to even touch the unit as I've been turned away from even when I offered to pay out of pocket to have a drain and fill done at my local Lexus dealer (Bay Ridge Lexus) with the same response: it's a sealed unit with lifetime fluid lasting until 100K....so does that mean at 100K miles these cars went a "lifetime" and become sitting ducks? Was this generation GS intended to be a goner upon reaching this mileage? I think this is a poor method Lexus has instilled with this particular car's maintenance schedule because a member here actually had his tranny fluid drained and filled, and had the old fluid tested for it's effectiveness and low and behold -- the tests confirmed the fluid's viscosity and performance to be greatly decreased - at 60,000 miles!! Imagine what 100,000 mile old fluid would look like, let alone members' who've gone past that. That would be the same as implying the engine too can last until 100K miles without an oil change. Seem sensible? Doubtful.

To see someone pay $50K+ for a brand new car that won't last as long as a Corolla is another example of corporate ignorance. If the transmission has this "lifetime fluid" within them, then Lexus should stand by that claim with a warranty UNTIL that mileage and eat any issues that come their way with respect to these units should any problems surface before that mileage.

Maybe start a poll here to see how many people would be interested in going that route of applying for class action in order to make Lexus stand by their claim of the transmissions specs for any current owners regardless on how many times a car has changed hands. 100Kmiles is 100Kmiles, right?

**Since Lexus won't touch these transmissions which forces some people to go to an independent mechanic, if that shop doesn't follow proper procedure for this car (since it seems it has to be a very precise process) it seems underhanded that the route some people are forced to go is buy an entire new unit costing into the thousands since they would want something with a warranty so to avoid going through the headache of another multi-thousand dollar repair.

dkobryant

well said! I'd go along with a lawsuit.