blue00

I am new to the forum, and sorry for the fly by question. I am looking to replace my old car and it is basically down to two cars

2010 GS350 AWD vs 2010TL SH-AWD.

From my test drive experience the GS was a solidly planted car that would not lose traction in light snow covered road condition, I cannot say the same about the TL, but that may have been due to tires as well, the TL started fishtailing in the snow as it threw torque to the back in heavy acceleration. I preferred the drive of the GS, but obviously that is a short time to get acquainted with it and I need some time to reflect and ground my excitement. I like the Lexus in every way better except for the headroom/seating position (I am 6'2 and my head touches the ceiling when I try to sit up as I am used to).

So I joined this Lexus forum to ask this question, as owners and users, what are your opinions of the GS? In particular I am looking for common problems/issues/complaints. Is the direct injection engine susceptible to carbon build up on the valves like that on its German counterparts? I am handy and like doing things myself, is the car serviceable for basic things in a home garage or is everything stowed away in inaccessible places and requires constant manufacturer computer interface to set/reset sensors after work has been done?

I am used to my Accord being an undemanding car, it took a beating, didn't complain and when it did throwing a wrench in the engine bay generally fixed things as it fell on its way out the bottom (I kid, but really that car needed only the most elementary maintenance). I realize it is a different car, but want to get an idea as to what the ownership experience is like.

I found the throttle did not provide the "kick" feel, but the car picked up fast and smooth. I have the ole fashioned Honda lead foot needed to get those cars moving so the drive feel is definitely different.

I have researched both cars to death, but one thing is that I can't find much user/consumer/owner feedback on the Lexus GS and this is what I am looking for here, what is the ownership experience?

AudioBob

Overall I like my 2007 GS350 and it has been very reliable. The only issues that I have had are 2 recalls for engine related issues and frozen rear calipers. If you are decent with a wrench you can perform some of the maintenance yourself. I typically change my own oil, brakes, plugs, bulbs and etc...I did the rear calipers myself as well. I will say that if you take it to the dealer for service you should expect to pay 2-3 times what you would normally pay because the part mark up is very high as well as the labor. That seems to be because they provide loaner cars and at least at my local dealership their technicians are very good.

promethus7

Hello Blue,
I might be able to give you an honest perspective based on owning both. I came over to 2010 GS350 AWD from a 2009 TL FWD. If my memory serves me correctly the only difference between the 2009 and 2010 TL was on the 2010 they change the rotors because of premature rusting and they added a button to synch your phone vs scrolling through the menus.

Overall I think the GS is a better vehicle for what I am looking for. It is softer ride and the 3 year old car rattles haven’t showed up yet whereas they had in the Acura. I also saw more Honda in the Acura than I see Toyota in the Lexus, however both have comparable features and the power.

I can say unequivocally that the user interface is much better in the TL than it is in GS. The GS relies heavily on the touch screen to do even the most basic tasks. As such, damn near nothing can be done without taking your eyes off the road. Many magazines and online reviews have complained about the button overload of the current generation of Acura products. I cannot lie, there are allot (I counted 43 one day while stuck in traffic), however after the first few weeks I had memorized where everything was and I could do anything while not taking eyes off the road (big buttons and a spiny **** are on the money).

If you are in to music, the audio system in the GS is better. Many magazines have touted the Acura ELS system as great however, I think that depends on what you are listening to and at what volume. I found both the basic and ELS system to be very muddy with no midrange. The bass in both systems is non-existence, this was even more so in the basic (I got the basic and put a little sub in the trunk to fix that) But again, it depends on what you are listening to. I encourage you to take you on Ipod in the car with you not the dealers demo disk so you can see if it works for you.

From my experience the TL is a better handling vehicle. I am not saying that from a typical magazine review based on a manufacturer sponsored event at a track for a few hours doing slalom courses and 0-60 times. I am saying that from an average guy whose handling definition is how fast can I go around this cloverleaf so I can beat that semi-truck to the end of the freeway on ramp. Both cars allow me to go fast around on/off ramps as I please however the GS clearly communicating more that it doesn’t like it. I did notice on the TL the steering is a bit twitchier. I found that the TL requires numerous little steering inputs to track straight. After a while you get used to it but in the beginning it will get tiresome (I bet it is even worse if you are a ten and two driver).

I choose the FWD because when I got it I was in Georgia and it didn’t snow whereas I am somewhere it snows now so I traded up. I had multiple SH-AWD for for loaner. Simply putting it, despite the bigger engine, there was no way to hide the increase weight. I was fun to watch the diplay of where the power was being shifted but that gets old really quick.
Doing the exact same route to work in the same traffic, in the GS I get ~20.5MPG. In the TL (FWD) I was getting 22. Every SH-AWD I had for a loaner showed ~20. Note: In I think 2011, the TL switched to from a 5A to a 6A Trans. I dove both and let me tell you the 6A was a vast upgrade. The 5A was always jerky and had a knack for gear hunting in the 30-35MPH range.

The only issues I had with both cars were both warranty repairs. On the Acura the steering column had to be replaced, and on the GS I just had the VVT Cam replacement recall done. The dealers are very comparable in that they are both clean, polite, uncrowded, and lots of free snacks. Pretty much the polar opposite of a GM dealer. With that being said, the Lexus dealer has outrageous prices on even the most basic services. $110 for an oil charge, as such I head to the Toyota dealer for $39.95. The Honda dealer was always a little suspect about servicing my Acura, I don’t know why. I will say that the Acura dealer was always more forthcoming with the loaner cars than the Lexus dealer. Even for an oil change and tire rotation they would give a loaner (so I got to drive everything in the Acura lineup)
You may not notice this in you test drive but please note, the rear visibility in the Acura is very compromised. The slope of the rear window makes it like you looking through a gun slit. As such I was forever adjusting it trying to get it right.

Hope that helps

LovezLexus

Get a GS, you will NOT regret it!

blue00

Thank you both AudioBob and promethus7,

That is the feedback I was looking for, I expect the Lexus to be a reasonable car in terms of repair/maintenance... some things the dealer will have to do (and dealers like money, no two ways about it), but as long as the basic things are doable on my own (ie oil changes, sparks, brakes, etc....) I looked at some of the DYI threads and it seems like it is a car like any other.

Despite the reviews/comments, my observation was different I found the Lexus to be very solidly planted and go when told to go and where to go. I expected the Lexus to feel closer to soft floaty Toyota's I have driven, but while the road feel was muted it really didn't lean much and didn't complain about jerky maneuvers, there was enough road feedback without it being cheap feeling. The Acura was all over the place and actually fishtailed a bit off the stop on a slippery road, it was totally a Honda in acceleration and handling (I don't mean that in a bad way, but road feedback is a lot more pronounced) and despite of being a 3.7L V6 for some reason it still wouldn't pick up until the gas pedal received a healthy mash. I will also pay attention to the rear visibility on the TL, I read reviews that bulkheads obstruct visibility, but it didn't strike me as reduced visibility even in the back. I am used to sitting quite upright and with my height am used to have pretty good visibility out the front, back and sides. The lexus on the other hand, due to the lower roof line needed me to sit in a more reclined position so that I could not see the top to front of the hood as I am used to. I will do another round of test for both cars drives on a better day (the one Saturday I had a chance to do that was an incoming snowstorm....). Perhaps I am not being fair to the TL and maybe will bring the wife for fresh set of eyes.

I just wanted to hear that no one regretted their GS purchase I know these forums are often a good place to find complainers... but you both have provided very good objective views.

alSpeed2k

Haha, these two cars aren't even in the same class! For the same model year, the TL should be cheaper than the GS.

In terms of handling, the SH-AWD should handle better than the GS. I don't find our GS particularly nimble, and the gearing is not great for spirited driving either. FWIW, if you were driving the cars in snow, tires make a HUGE difference. I drove our 2011 GS AWD for the first time in the snow and wasn't overly impressed, I primarily attribute this to the stock Dunlops that came with the car. That being said, I don't expect the GS to be a superb handling car, to me it's a luxury cruiser.

Because of the price difference, I think you could look at a newer TL, as promethus7 mentioned, the ones with the 6 speed automatic seem quite good, on paper the performance seems like a huge upgrade to the 5A; better yet, it you can drive manual, that's the way to go! On the subject of transmission, I can't stand the the sport-shift on the Lexus;regardless of which gear you are in it will shift to 4th, so I never use it. FTL!

Overall, I think the 3GS Lexus looks better, is a little more spacious in the back and is more luxurious.

blue00

The thing that gets me is the 3.7L SOHC multiport injection engine on the TL.... I can't help but feel it really is from the stone age. I drive stick and our other car is a manual transmission, the stick shift TL is pushing into Lexus price category, i get that it's rare, but that should make the price go down as in nobody wants it....

BGG

iTrader: (1)

I happen to own both of these cars and here is my brief comparison on both....
Both of my cars are modified in almost identical way, so its a very accurate comparision.

2010 TL (AWD)- Intake, J Pipe (equivalent to headers), Coilovers & Straight Pipe, 20x9 20x10.5 Wheels
2007 GS RWD- Intake, Headers, Exhaust, Coilovers, 20x9.5 20x10.5 Wheels

Power- Both take off the same, however the GS begins to pull on the TL rather quickly. On the highway 60mph and above both perform about the same.

Handling- TL handles much better. TL is more planted, in all fairness it is AWD, and is alot more enjoyable to drive spirited than the GS.

Interiors-The TL and GS both have very nice interiors, however I enjoy that more bucketed design of the TL's seats. They hold you better in the corners due to the higher bolsters. However, in terms of interfaces, the Lexus is more user friendly. The Acura is packed with way more technology but users must navigate through more screens etc to accomplish their needs.

Gas mileage- The TL is a gas guzzler compared the GS. Hugely in part to the fact that the TL is not direct injection, whereas the GS is... Trust me this makes a noticeable difference.

Overall, I am pleased with both vehicle's and plan on riding them to the wheels fall off. Hope this brief review helps you with your decision!

Now for some quick pics
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alSpeed2k

^Nice, both cars look great!

blue00

Nice cars BGG and thank you for the comparison, I didn't realize the TL would be a gas guzzler in comparison, I was expecting a similar consumption for the two, any opinion on the comments of the 5spd AT on the TL hunting? I found a TL at an local dealership I am homed into and would be exasperated to start over with a 2012 model in mind.

neurocity

iTrader: (17)

I have a TL-SH now.

....Its going to be trading in on a Lexus this spring. Just so i can say i had it a year.

BGG

iTrader: (1)

IMHO there is a noticeable difference. However I have heard great things about the newer 6sp auto's. Apparently they are a lot smoother and provide for better fuel economy If AWD is not necessary in your particular region I would just spring for a 12' FWD tech

MX5

I had a 2005 TL and really liked it, but I would have a tough time owning a newer TL based on looks alone (that said, the black one posted above is sweet!)......I would think a newer ES would be most closely relatable to your Accord, while a GS is more like a 5 Series in size and sportiness.
I think you will find the transmission behaves better in the Lexus VS the Acura.
It sounds like you will do most of the work on your car yourself, so the dealer isn't a huge issue, but you can't beat a Lexus dealer. Of the two choices you gave I would definitely choose the GS.

keyframe13

Are you sure is not because you compare an AWD vs a RWD?

blue00

test drove both again last night, as well as a 2012 TL. And this time I had more chance to throw the lexus around, and I see what you guys mean about ride compliance. The TL was certainly less refined in every way, it has power and so does the lexus, but the TL makes a point of it (at least noise wise inside the cabin), the acceleration on the newer TL did feel less jerky (given jerky pedal pushes all the way) so I can see how the 6spdAT makes a noticeable difference and the muted styling is a lot less in your face, but styling is secondary, I am sitting inside the car not outside and couldn't care less what outside onlookers see, as long as I am comfortable inside.

On the GS, I did notice the front dash (around where the windshield comes down) have a slight rattle/pop that did not occur on the first drive, the first time around the car was cold as I thought I would surpise the dealer so I can hear all the noises it would make on a cold start/cold day, this second time dealer had a heads up and car was warmed up, I am not sure if something loosened up when warmer, or if as the dealer said it is a "loose speaker". The dealer's service history shows a ton of visits/diagnose (a long list for a 2010 IMO) and I asked for more detail as to what was being done, that is a big reason I started this thread as it seemed the previous owner took it to the dealership for everything from wipers to changing bulbs and either there was a lot of bulbs to change or that one may be a lemon.

The Lexus is certainly has the best feel for a quality car and I really like it, I hope the rattling isn't a big issue as these cars are really hard to find used, either no one buys them or no one sells them because there are just 4 in a 100KM area around me (in Toronto) 2 have high mileage (over 100K km), one just sold, and that leaves me with the one I am looking at. Since I favor the lexus, I was curious to hear people's experiences with it and the feedback has been very helpful, especially from people who owned both cars, i knew what to look for in the second set of test drives. The gas consumption shown on the lcd of the TL was 12.7L/100km average (18.5MPG) and the GS showed 11.3L/100Km (20.8MPG) not a big difference, but will add up over time - I blame Honda's reluctance to upgrade their V6 engine. The visibility out the rear window was similar, while the angling of the GS rear windshield was better, since the roof line is lower I sit more reclined as a result I see the same out the back as I did with the TL so it is not an issue for me.

We do get enough snow to render my old Accord relatively unsafe (despite its new tires) and both the lexus and Acura AWD + the added weight (they do have a good 1000lbs on my accord) feel a lot more solid and controllable in the snow. While I find Accords to be (relatively for what they are) well handling and predictable in slippery conditions, all I can do is predict when it will slip and where it will go, I would like to think I have an option of stopping it from going wherever it goes so I am looking at the AWD trains, a FWD TL disqualifies it as I would just opt for the Accord.

I am not looking to just replace my Accord, if so then I would just get a new Accord (and that is also an option) but I would like to upgrade the drive, a brand new stick shift can be had for about the ballpark price as both the used TL and Lexus. I am looking at around mid $30K CAD (Yes I know it says NY/Buffalo, but this site wouldn't take Canadian postal code for zip) the 2010TL is actually the best "value" in terms of getting power/handling/AWD and it being cheaper than a brand new accord with all the dealer fees. Button wise and gimicks the Accord is no slouch, and I know what that car entails the new ones are roomy well appointed and good on gas. But I am mostly looking at suspension drivetrain upgrade/features, buttons go out of fashion and whatever high tech nav/tech/audio systems will go out of fashion faster than the car will ever go. I want a reliable, safe, high quality vehicle that wont give me a headache.

Thanks everyone, i just have to pucker up and make a choice.