ndubs77

Hello all,

So I am looking around for a luxury car as a daily driver (I have an STi now and will keep it for fun).

In a nutshell my price range is +/- $20k, which seems to be enough for any 06-07 GS models I'd want.

The GS450h has my specific interest though, because of its relative rarity, performance, and technology. It also seems from my research that it will get marginally better MPG than the GS300/GS350. My questions are as follows:

-My research has told me that the batteries are generally lasting 200-250k on these, and other Toyota hybrids. Is that true? And what has been the general experience of those who've had them fail?

-I am looking at 450h's with 65-85k miles on them because battery health is my top priority if I get this car, and I figure 10k miles a year is a good thing. Am I correct in that assumption?

-How is the reliability/maintenance of the 450h, other than the $5-6k battery replacement that will loom over my head the whole time? Will the car be solid in other areas to 200K miles or so?

-Also what is maintenance like on the CVT specifically?

-What sort of real MPG do people see from the 450h, and what kind of MPG is possible if you are a total saint..... I've heard 32-33mpg..... is that true?


As for the other GS models, the 300 and 350 (no V8 for me, and probly no AWD). My big question is simple.... is it really worth getting the 450h over these for any reason other than rarity and marginal performance?

I understand most luxury cars I'm looking at will average mid 20mpg range, but what I want is something that can realistically top 30mpg if I'm on my best behavior. Can either the GS 300 or 350 do that.... I live in the North East US, so there are some hills around.

Sort of going off the "is the 450h worth it?" question, how is the reliability/maintenance on the 300/350 compared to the 450h?..... I've heard the Hybrids may be built a little more solidly than the standard models across the Toyota range.


As for priorities:
-MPG is one, but keep in mind I'm used to 17mpg in my STi, so high 20s-low 30s is fine.
-Reliability is the big one, as this car will be what I rely on to get around.
-Maintenance costs..... I know the battery is a big one, but if everything else is basically hands-off the 450h may be worth it to me.
-The power of the 450h is a major plus, but the 245hp of the 300 would suffice if that really is the better option. (My Sti has 400hp, so my need for speed is quenched there haha)

I really appreciate any help/advice anyone can give me here. I wanna make sure this is a good purchase.

Thanks in advance!

JeffTsai

iTrader: (1)

I just got a 450h myself. I have two 2nd gen GS that are well over 800whp. I kinda got tired of getting 9-10mpg and have to be on the constant hunt for E85 every few days. My Sportdesign GS was my daily driver and I had to top up every 2-3 days lol. The 450h is a major relief because I can go about 1.5 weeks between fill ups now.

MPG is definately a HUGE improvement over my big power cars lol, but that's to be expected. However the difference between this and the GS350 honestly isn't that much more. Mabye like 3-4mpg more? I'm sure under the most optimal driving conditions, you could probably eek out 5-7mpg more than the GS350.

It is pretty cool to have all the hybrid systems and displays and such. I enjoy cruising around at slow speeds in EV only mode. When you come to a stop, the car is dead silent. The gasoline engine shuts off automatically and it's just uncanny. It is also a nice feeling that you don't use a single drop of gas creeping around through rush hour traffic though

So is the $3-5k premium for a similar mileage/year GS450h vs 350h worth the difference to you? Also, the battery pack takes up like half the trunk, so you don't have a ton of storage space back there. I can only fit 1 large suitcase and 1 small one. Everything else goes in the back seat.

I don't really see the reliability being an issue. This is a Toyota/Lexus product after all. They probably could of made more than 339hp with the electric boost, but instead tuned it for long term battery/motor reliability. Usually Toyota will help foot the bill in the battery replacement by half. So you're probably only out of pocket like $3k rather than $6k. In some instances they might even pay for the whole replacement.

If you have really bad luck and it will not be covered no matter what, you can always take the DIY approach. If you're well versed on working with cars. You can take out the battery pack and replace the faulty cells. I think there are 28 cells in the 450h, and if any single cell fails it will trigger a fault in the system. Take the pack apart, and replace the one cell and you're back in business. HOWEVER...only do this is you are confident enough to tackle it!!! With that said, many of the Prius guys repair their own packs with the DIY route. You can buy each cell for probably $150-200 or so instead of the $6k for the whole pack.

ISFjimmy

iTrader: (5)

Hey Jeff, I didn't know you bought a GS450h!

I typically get about 24mpg on my h with mixed driving. Best I've had so far is 26mpg on a tank, but I don't really drive like a saint. I took it to the track last month and ran 13.9 bone stock so it has pretty good power. Looking around I have seen that a lot of h's have had their batteries replaced. To me it seems like it has to do more with age than with mileage. Mine was replaced less than 5k miles ago and I have 120k miles on my car. I've recently seen some had the battery replaced with as low as like 60k-80k miles. Honestly, if you're going to buy one, get one that's had the battery replaced unless you want to go the DIY way like Jeff said.

The reason I got my GS450h is because they pretty much all come fully loaded. Navi, back up camera, parking sensors, Mark Levinson audio, etc.

I'll sell you mine if you're interested

ndubs77

I appreciate the offer haha. But I've been reading around more and it seems the battery issues are a lot more prevalent than I first thought. I think I'm leaning away from the Hybrid at this point because I don't really want to had to risk dealing with a surprise repair bill that could instead buy me a super clean Miata or an E36 M3. I'm considering Lexus precisely because they are known for not having expensive problems like the Europeans...... This negates that haha.

And at an entry price of around 20k, we are talking 25-40% of the value of the car to fix the issue. And the 300/350s just aren't that much worse on gas, and it'd take more than a decade of driving to make up for the price of the battery in fuel savings...... Whatever car I buy here, I doubt I will have it that long.

I will still consider the 300/350 tho, and I may take a better look at the IS250/350 too.

LovezLexus

Please don't let the hybrid battery scare you. It's an amazing car and you are missing out. They come with an 8 year/100k warranty and replacing the battery from 3rd party places are cheap as mentioned above. PM me if you have any questions.