Thoughts On My Buying Decision ...
 

New to the Lexus board as a member, but I must say that I have been trolling for quite some time. In light of the recent write ups between Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, and others, I thought I might share some of the reasoning that went into my decision, and why I purchased an M35 Sport.

I recently purchased a Toyota Sienna XLE Limited for wife and two kids, so I no longer felt the need to continue driving my 2004 GMC Yukon XL Denali. Besides the fact that I was being robbed at the gas pump for $65 every 5-7 days.

I have been in an SUV or truck for at least the last ten years, so it is significant that I would even consider myself a candidate for a sedan. I looked at every luxury sedan on the market, everything from Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Acura, Lexus, and Cadillac. I even looked at the new Avalon, until I read something about it being the new choice for the "Buick generation". Being in a car tagged like that would be the equivalent of wearing velcro tennis shoes. Oddly enough, Infiniti never came to mind.

Bear in mind that I always "dress down" when I go car shopping, and park off-site, so the sharks swimming around the front door won't be able to size the ups on attire or current vehicle. As a premier Sales Professional, I love to seek out and conduct business other Sales Professionals.

BMW was off the list first, as I just do not like the 5 series. Audi was off the list next, as well as Mercedes, as I could not find a salesman that would wait on me, much less talk to me. Even went I went in the Mercedes showroom asking for help, I was asked if had an appointment. She said something else to me, but I could not hear what she said, as I was already driving away.

I really liked the Acura RL, so i drove and then we started talking. Book trade in on my Denali is $35k-$36k.. Acura offered me $32k, provided i purchase their car not only at sticker, but with a $1k "market adjustment" over sticker. The sales manager would not even come out of his cube to meet with me and talk face to face. The buy sheet had his "Final Offer ... Take It Or Leave It" in large red ink, so I wrote in large blue ink "I LEFT"

Lexus was next door, and I have gotten to know the GS fairly well. Drove the 430 for awhile, but encountered the same problems as experienced at Acura, only worse. The sales manager did meet with me, but in retrospect he should have stayed in his office. Not only did he insult my intelligence, he insulted my character. They low-balled my Denali, and said "I would pay sticker" for their GS. When I questioned as to why I have to pay sticker, and why he priced my trade under book value, he proceeded to become extremely irritated. Once he made the "you people" statement, coupled with a reference that I am "too cheap", I courteously ended our conversation, and thanked him for his time. He did not say a word.

I saw the new Infiniti dealership under construction, so I went to the current location, as I remember reading about a new model design, although I had no idea what it was. As soon as I walked onto the lot, I was greeted professionally, and we had an excellent "qualifying" discussion. I drove the 35 for awhile, and it really is a great car. I was sold almost as soon as i walked up to it.

My choice was almost made, but I wanted to give the GS another chance. Optioned out like I wanted, it was going to be more than the 35 Sport, but I went to the sales manager once again, but his tact was that the demand for his car was greater than the deman for my Denali, and with gas prices moving higher, I had better do the deal they offered before it's too late. I thanked him for his time once again, and left.

I went back to Infiniti, we located one vehicle in the entire US the way I wanted it, they picked up the tab for transporting it, and put me in a loaner so nothing would change on our trade.

I then went to the bank, and picked up a letter from the Area Bank President, withdrew $75k in cash, and went calling on the dealers. I went to the Sales Manager and/or the General Manager office, left them a copy of the letter, stacked the cash on their desk, and laid out my story.

I told Audi that "this could have been yours if a salesman would have waited on me".

I told Mercedes "this could have been yours, but you don't have an appointment".

I told Acura "this could have been yours, but I left".

I told Lexus "this could have been yours, if you had any courtesy, professionalism, or training".

All in all, I purchased the best car that suits my needs. Fun driving, dependability, good styling, features, electronics, etc. Plus my M35 has a video screen for the boys in the back seat. More importantly, they genuinely wanted my business. Sure Infiniti might not have the status that a Lexus has, but I don't need the "snoot" factor as exhibited by the Lexus Sales Manager. The positive write up's of late only verified my purchase decision, they did not make the decision for me.

I only wish I had a video recorder when the Lexus man saw those stacks of hundreds on his desk, and then read the letter from my bank.

Sorry you had a not so great experience at your local Lexus dealer. It's unfortunate that all Lexus dealership experiences aren't exactly alike, but regardless congrats your purchase. :thumbup:

I've had to go through that when a friend of mine and I were just going to learn more about Lexus for a school project. There was this guy who quickly approched me and my friend and asked us, "what are you doing here?" We had to explain that we had a school project and he was just like, "Oh." and told us to come in. We waited for 15 minutes for someone to come and talk, but no one came. This was when i felt like this: :wild: :sai: :angry: :thumbdn: so we just left to go and talk to someone on the certified used car side. The person there was very appologetic and told us that we should've never been treated that way and he allowed us to ask him all the questions we wanted to ask. So it reli depends on the sales person, some are genuinly nice and others are looking for status. I think that if you reli wanted to get that Lexus, you should've gone to a different sales person. No sense going and getting a car, which you just purchased because of a nice sales person. It's great that you got the M, but if you had truly wanted to get the GS you should've just went to see another person and purchase it from him/her. Then that way the other sales person could've seen that stack of cash and the letter from the bank.

call me crazy, but clublexus.com? :egads:

not to beat this point in the ground ... but I went to the boss. This person was over the floor manager who was over the salesmen. I honestly thought he was going to get violently ill.

I sincerely think it has a great deal to do with the increasing "Mega Dealerships". It used to be that Bud Davis of Bud Davis Cadillac lived in your hometown. In this day and age, your local dealership is owned by an investment group from Miami, who happen to also own about forty other dealerships.

Regardless, when you have a good experience somewhere, you will tell a few people about it. When you have a bad experience, you want to tell everybody.

:agreed: :thumbup: sorry, but Spywolf's right.

stating the fact that I am always cautious when weighing these "write ups" and "comparison articles". I always think there is something going on behind the scenes, whether it is endorsement dollars, bias, or whatever.

I don't put much stock in the stories, outside of safety, crash testing, etc. I have to see and feel for myself. Judging some of the posts, folks are reacting too quickly.

I only brought this up in response to the posts regarding the USA Today and Car and Driver write ups. Lexus makes a good car, and like I said in my post Infiniti never even entered the process until very late in the game. They brand had no "top of mind awareness" as we call it.

People buying a car in this segment need a whole lot more information than a magazine write up.

The service experience at the dealerships is absolutely critical IMO...definitely make or break the deal.

Congrats on your purchase. If you really wanted the GS, maybe you should have tried another dealership. Not all Lexus dealerships are the same caliber, unfortunately. I've been to "bad" Lexus dealerships too and it made me feel ashamed. On the other hand, there are good dealerships and you just learn to go to those. I am sure come of the members here would have had feedback on the different ones in your area.

Still, the Ms are nice cars and I would not have a problem owning one. Congrats again. Hopefully, one day you will give Lexus a shot at your business again since they really do make nice vehicles. Please check here first, though, for a better dealership to approach. ;) :D

Congrats on the new M, :) you can't go wrong with it :thumbup: & I can only imagine how it's like to be carrying $75K of cash around ;)

[QUOTE=Neo]Congrats on your purchase. If you really wanted the GS, maybe you should have tried another dealership. Not all Lexus dealerships are the same caliber, unfortunately. I've been to "bad" Lexus dealerships too and it made me feel ashamed. On the other hand, there are good dealerships and you just learn to go to those. I am sure come of the members here would have had feedback on the different ones in your area.


I totally agree, but unfortunately I am in a one Lexus, one Infiniti town. The next dealer for each brand is well over two hundred miles away, plus I can't utilize the "we need to keep our business local" statement.

Besides, I still believe "People Buy From People", and "Service Beyond The Sale".

IMO, Acura is by far the worst off. Charging $1K over sticker price, and at last count I saw 13 RL's on the lot, for two weeks now ...

Hi Donomat!

What car would You have bought if service at Infiniti would have been the same as in Lexus dealership? If all luxury brand dealership experiences would have been equally bad? It seems that the car itself isn't really important to you, major players in your decision seem to be salesperson attitude and trade in value of your old car. But still, good choice :)

I'm happy you got a good experience with your local Infiniti dealer. Unfortunately, I didn't have a good experience. In fact, I was so upset I wrote the following letter to Infiniti NA and the dealer's manager:

Dear Sir/Madam

I’d like to tell you about my experience this past Saturday at your dealership. This past week, I received an invitation letter from your dealership to test drive the new M35/M45. After having driven various Mercedes-Benz and BMW models, I felt it was time to try something different.

I arrived at 2:00 in the afternoon, and the dealership was not exceptionally busy. I and my girlfriend walked towards the silver M35 in the showroom and started to sit in it and inspect it. I had been in/around the car for 20 minutes until I was finally greeted by a sales associate. His name was Jim Callager. I inquired about test driving an M35/M45 and he said they were unavailable for a test drive. His excuse was the “owner’s son was messing around with the Bluetooth system on the car.”

Just as he finished talking, an Umbria Grey M45 sport model pulled into the dealership. I told him that was the car I wanted to drive. He told me to come back during the week for a test drive. I hope your dealership understands that most people who buy these types of cars are very busy during week and only have time during the weekends.

Since my company does consulting for Nissan Motor Corporation, I was eligible for VPP pricing. I inquired about it and Jim flat out told me they would consider selling the car for above sticker. Nissan/Infiniti makes very fine cars but my condolences to anybody paying above sticker for a Nissan Fuga (Japan Domestic Market). I understand the law of supply and demand, but to tell a potential customer that this dealership is not above selling cars above MSRP is a big turnoff. With that said Jim quickly turned his back on me and walked away. The exchange lasted less than five minutes.

After that exchange, I stepped outside your showroom and inspected the said M45 for another 15 minutes. It was unlocked and there was nobody else around the car but us. At that point I felt it wasn’t a matter of “we can’t let you test drive it” but rather “we don’t want you to test drive it.”

Bottom line was I was ready to test drive an M45. If I liked it enough I would have placed and order and deposit and even considered paying MSRP. Don’t worry though. I’m sure the other three Houston-Area Infiniti dealers would rather have my business.

In the future, please do not send me any invitations for test drives if this is the treatment I am to expect.

The manager did write me back, but it was too late.

In contrast, Westside Lexus (Houston) gave me such great service (I was in t-shirt and shorts, at the dealer), I'm going with them.

The GS and M may be comparable cars, but Lexus and Infiniti service aren't.

lol call me crazy but i dont get the part about getting 75K of cash and leaving it cold on someones desk? I dont udnerstand what that was for or why someone would leave cash like that lying around anywhere especially if it a LOAN.

Im lost about that whole part..lol I think im really slow today - HELP!

To me it makes a very clear statement that he was not only able to afford the car, but to buy it with no delay--cash on the barrel head--so you lost a sale. So what I don't get is the letter from the bank. Here's more than enough to buy the car in cash, what does the letter say that can add any more to the point? "There's more where that came from."? :uh:

Miniman
 

Methinks the man (with the mini-man-van) has a chip on his shoulder and was looking for someone to knock it off.

The 75K in cash stunt proves it. Even if you have the cash only a _____ would walk around with it. And besides, modern car dealerships could care less how you pay for the car.

As for paying sticker for a GS430, which are fairly rare among GS' as it is, and is part of a much hotter brand than all the others mentioned, and only a few weeks into the new model, what the hell do you expect? A premier salesperson (whatever the heck that means) should know the basics of supply and demand. If they were also rude about it than that is a different matter.

my experience is much different Reverse
 

I for a few weeks having been going back and forth to both Lexus& InfinitI dealerships At Lexus., where we are repeat customers. My wife bought es3000 in 2003 from tthem. I have been trying to get rid of my 528bmw since I first bought it TOO NOISY TOO UNRELIABLE. Have gone through drives on gen 2 430 & 300, was not super impressed. I have driven m45 sport 3 times at same dealer. At last test drive I used my polorized sun glasses, and could not see video /nav screen clearly. For me it was almost deal breaker. I went back Yesterday, and was told salesman were too busy to help me. All I wanted to do was sit in m car with screen on, Having sat in floor model I sensed how the atm center stack would drive me crazy. Wierd shape , too many buttons placed in order that defies
logic. Also I could only get interior color I wanted if I ordered the sport model. Sport model uses summer tires, usless in winter snow in CT. Also wheels are 40 aspect too narrow for pot holes around here. Yes m45 is very fast with good tranny, But as bad as interior is, exteror is worse. I expect after flooring car for a few weeks novelty of v-8 would wear off. So would my pocket book with its poor fuel economy,Lexus dealer bent over backwards. gave me keys to both 430 & 300 and let me drive cars alone on roads I was familair with, I then could get true feeling about the cars. Chose
gs 300 for reasons in my post of todays date. Each dealer is different . Some have more patience than others. :thumbup: :thumbdn:

Let me summarize it this way, as my intent was not be arrogant or to have someone remove a chip from my shoulder. Also, I thought I stated a Professional Salesperson, if I said premier I miswrote. The easiest person in the world to sell is a salesman, the hardest person in the world to sell is a trained salesman.

The fact the manager called me "cheap" did not bother me. However when another salesman asked my salesman "who the hayseed was", I got a little upset. Granted I "reacted" when I should have "responded", but some of these guys just are too poorly trained to understand things unless you "draw them a picture", which the money did.

When someone walks out of your business, most people don't give it a second thought. When you see cash money leave your desk and walk right out your door, I can guarantee that you will never forget that visual image. Actually, seven, ten thousand dollar stacks fit nicely in my interior coat pockets. The cash had nothing to do with how I was going to pay for the car. I had total equity in my Denali up for trade.

I took $75k in there, because next week I will pick up a G35 I purchased for my daughter to take to college. Four years ago I told her I would buy her a new car if she received a full academic scholarship to college, which she did. They not only missed one sale, but two.

At least Lexus made an effort. I can't even say that for Mercedes or Audi.

Like I stated earlier, this is not to make anyone upset. I simply like sharing my experiences, good and bad, with others. Customer interaction has always been my best learning tool.

That is a great job by the Lexus folks. They pulled themselves away from the competition, and in turn eliminated the competition. Send the salesman or the sales manager a note thanking him for his assistance, and tell him exactly about what happened as a result of him giving you the keys. You will be amazed at the service and "extra help" you will get in the future.

Ahh this reminds me of my first experience with BMW. Couldn't get someone to wait on me at first. When I finally did the guy really didn't give me the time of day and it seemed I was wasting his time. Somehow I got past that point and 3 cars later, he's acting like my best friend and providing exceptional service (although his pricing is still not the best) and to tell you the truth, I do enjoy dealing with him now. Again this is one of those lucky cases that worked out, not all do.

I believe you should get great customer service no matter where you go and even if it's your first time, however unfortunately it does take some kissing butt on your side, to develop a relationship with a good salesperson at the dealership. Notice I said someone good, since it'll just be a waste of time dealing with a shark of salesman that you really don't like.

I have been lucky with my Lexus Dealer too, they have always treated me great from the start. 3 cars later there too, I am being offerred $2K off MSRP for the new GS430 (due to loyal and repeat customer).

I do have to agree that one bad experience at a dealership (you usually go with the one that is closest to you) will not only turn you off the dealership, but possibly to the brand too. Especially if another dealership carrying the same brand is now way out of your way. You start to think of what else you can get.

Congrats on your purchase. I've had bad expericences from dealers and good ones, including Lexus. Luckily I am in Altanta, so I could choose to try different dealers until I found the absolute incredible Hennessy Lexus of Gwinnett. (Avoid Lexus oF south Atlanta at ALL COSTS!).

I think Infiniti is going to learn a lot with the new "M" and the tier-1 luxury buyers.

These stories are so typical....
 

of how the mindset of the buyer will be confirmed by the dealership experience. Lexus is pretty good at this part of the business in general but this proves how much variation still exists. You can go to a dealer and luck out and find the person that establishes rapport easily and treats you in a friendly way and establishes trust. You can go back to the same dealership on a different day and feel ignored if they are busy for instance. It is the buyers perception that matters ultimately no matter what the situation. I have seen guests walk in and not make any eye contact with anyone trying to greet them and go up to the Lexus in the showroom and examine the sticker of one car and then another and then turn around and leave in a huff. I'm sure that they are thinking that they were rejected by their appearance or whatever. This internal dialogue is very common. My advice is ask for help, if you are not satisfied ask to speak to a sales manager and give him/her your thoughts. Donomat felt slighted and now tells us he was also ridiculed by being labelled a Hayseed. That is all the motivation needed to want to show his displeasure. Very unfortunate. I have heard many other horror stories. Lexus would like to know about the everyday experience of their guests and spends a lot of money surveying these folks. This thread has been very illuminating for me and I would welcome others to post their impressions and experiences with Lexus and others. Lexus is also reading these posts so Bring it!

dealers
 

my experience has been that the car i end up driving away has a lot to do with the dealership/sales experience. I shopped the G35 vs. A4 3 years ago, and the Infiniti dealer gave me all this crap about waiting for a month for a car to be available, and seemed generally smug with himself, whereas the Audi salesman actually wanted to make a sale, in an unobtrusive way. Went with the Audi, and 2 weeks later, i get a call from the same Infiniti salesman saying "we got the car in early, do you still want it." Point is, it totally makes a difference to me how i am treated, i won't give my money to an a-hole.

Good googly moogly
 

You've got to be kidding me on this...

A couple of points,

1> The sales experience good or bad is very temporary in relation to your experience with the car. I've delt with some real jerks simply because I knew I could drive the best deal with them. Once the car is purchased - take it somewhere else for servicing. If you bought a "G" but find out later that a "GS" would have suited your taste better - that's a shame.

2> Poor salesmanship by Lexus. That's a shame.

3> What are you trying to prove? "Premier Sales Professional", $75K in cash on the desk, taunting people who did not treat you properly, Man, it ain't worth it... Exhale some of that air out of your chest. There are way too many other things in life to enjoy other than taking joy in getting back at other people.

4> Enjoy your "G" - you paid good $$$ for the pleasure.

Eric

[QUOTE=Shogun]You've got to be kidding me on this...

A couple of points,

1> The sales experience good or bad is very temporary in relation to your experience with the car. I've delt with some real jerks simply because I knew I could drive the best deal with them. Once the car is purchased - take it somewhere else for servicing. If you bought a "G" but find out later that a "GS" would have suited your taste better - that's a shame.[QUOTE]

I have to disagree with you on this point. As a manager who interact with customers who are also managers it is very important, that I treat them all with the same level of respect. It does not matter if they represent a small business that is just starting or a fortune 500 company.

Reputations are built upon the "sales experience" for a car dealership. I literally boasted about my Lexus salesman after buying my wife's LX470. This guy went the extra mile. A bad reputation will not only hurt sales but sometimes put a company out of business. If that isn't the case then why waste money on advertisement.

Even if you don't shop at wal-mart, almost everyone believe they have the lowest prices in their market.

Lexus' corporate statement is the pursuit of perfection in the buying experience, luxurious interiors, beautiful designs, reliability, and top notch customer service after the sale. Take that away and Lexus' sells will suffer just like their competitors.

When the competition are all on the same level relationships can save the day.

I have dealt with plenty of axxhole salesmen from various brands/dealers over the years. Me and my girl friend price shopped my 98 LS (certified) and her 02 LS (new) online and dealt with only the online sales manager at each dealer. We had very limited contact with the floor salesmen, if at all. Both online purchasings proved to be much more pleasant than our past experiences. The online sales managers seem to be more professional overall. We considered the Lexus LS only. We went to our local dealership only to test drive a vehicle before we decided on the trim level. If we dont like how we are treated, we simply walk away and complain to the sales manager later. The deciding factor for us is 'the lowest offer'. We both bought our cars from out-of-state dealers who offered the best deals.

Totally agree
 

<<I have to disagree with you on this point. As a manager who interact with customers who are also managers it is very important, that I treat them all with the same level of respect. It does not matter if they represent a small business that is just starting or a fortune 500 company. >>

Absolutely, you are correct and I would bet you're able to display a great deal of humility and respect towards your clients. All sales should be handle in this manner. Lexus should have this down "pat" and it's a shame they screwed the pooch in this situation.

My point was that this gentlemen let a bad (and in the big scheme of things...temporary) sales experience possibly come between him and a product that may have better suited his tastes.

My ego loves a great salesperson - but I'm not there to get "sold" - I'm there to "buy". To that end, the product & the "deal" drives my decision. The sales equation is very temporary compared to the life of the product. If the sales experience was great then that's nice but I won't pay more $$$ (or switch to a product I like less) because of my dislike for a sales person.

Now, tell me the service dept. sucks and we've got whole 'nother situation...

Eric

Respect and humility :thumbup:

Well spoken!

QUOTE]...but I'm not there to get "sold" - I'm there to "buy"...[/QUOTE]

You sound like a person who does his homework before going shopping. Everyone should do this but most don't. They are there to be "sold" as well as "buy".

Donomat sound like a guy, after some research, who had not made up his mind at the time he went to visit the dealerships therefore the sales person played a very important part in his decision making process. In his experience, from what I've read, the Lexus salesman didn't give him a chance to prove that the GS is the best vehicle "for him."

One of the most important task of a salesman is to listen to the customer's needs and then CONVINCE him/her why his products will best meet those needs. The Lexus salesman failed to do this therefore HE lost the sale.

"New to the Lexus board as a member, but I must say that I have been trolling for quite some time."

Good post. Just letting you know that "trolling" is a pejorative term to describe yourself. I think you mean that say "lurking".

Thanks for the education, and "lurking" and/or "skulking" would apply in my case. Also, thanks to one of the earlier posters who capitalized "Hayseed".

Next thing you know you'll start saying "fixin".