From USA Today : Lexus GS falls short of Infiniti M (merged threads)
03-25-05, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by psteng19
From reading his review on both the M and the GS, it sure sounded like Infiniti slipped him a little extra something along with the monthly dues 
All the little details are refered to as "so-what" features........
03-25-05, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by psteng19
Interesting... that sounds like the same exact attitude the Germans had when Lexus first came out...
No doubt the GS will outsell the M. The GS is projected at 33,000 per year, and the M at 24,000 per year.
Last edited by jrock65; 03-25-05 at 11:35 AM.
03-25-05, 11:37 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by psteng19
Interesting... that sounds like the same exact attitude the Germans had when Lexus first came out...
I did note they are both nice cars, I love how the M looks. But lets see how everything pans out..... I LOVED the Q45... for 60k+??? No way, 2-3 years later sitting on the lot for 30k.
03-25-05, 01:35 PM
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WOW. You would think they were promised a GS to test and were delivered a Yugo.
USAToday Quote: "You can argue back and forth about other aspects — styling, probable quality, interior, prestige, depreciation — but in the end, it's hard to find yourself as involved with, as emotional about, as big-grin pleased with the Lexuses as you are with the Infinitis."
This was quite a statement and jumped out at me. I must have really made a huge mistake buying my 06 GS430 instead of an M45. I had no idea that myLexus was such a piece of crap compared to the M45.
This article is further proof to me that agendas and motives fuel these articles. Also everyone right now is fixated on HP. The more I read this article the more convinced I am that they only sat in the GS or just took it around the block. You don't see anything about ride, suspension, performance are anything else that give you a hint that they actually drove the car. When the Lexus did not measure up on paper with the HP of Infiniti the game was over.
You did notice that they did a write up on the M45 the week before. Could their discussions with Infiniti explain why they did such a quick fly over of the GS?
USAToday Quote: "You can argue back and forth about other aspects — styling, probable quality, interior, prestige, depreciation — but in the end, it's hard to find yourself as involved with, as emotional about, as big-grin pleased with the Lexuses as you are with the Infinitis."
This was quite a statement and jumped out at me. I must have really made a huge mistake buying my 06 GS430 instead of an M45. I had no idea that myLexus was such a piece of crap compared to the M45.
This article is further proof to me that agendas and motives fuel these articles. Also everyone right now is fixated on HP. The more I read this article the more convinced I am that they only sat in the GS or just took it around the block. You don't see anything about ride, suspension, performance are anything else that give you a hint that they actually drove the car. When the Lexus did not measure up on paper with the HP of Infiniti the game was over.
You did notice that they did a write up on the M45 the week before. Could their discussions with Infiniti explain why they did such a quick fly over of the GS?
03-25-05, 01:40 PM
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You know, all these reviews remind me of how the press was drooling over the Q45 over the LS. And we know how that went. 
I doubt that will happen again, the M hit its target on the head. And saying "its no Lexus for 50k" there is nothing wrong with that. Infiniti still has little to no brand. Outside the G35 coupe, resale is horrific. The cars age worse than a Lexus. Sit in a 1997 I 30 and a 1997 ES 300. Big difference. Lexus is a proven winner. Infintii is in the middle of a turn-around. And the M, is buitl off a parts sharing process I cannot be involved in for 50k.
1. The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35. The M45 engine=solid
2. Platform from a stretched 350Z. Talk about Nissan profit for every M45 sold.
3. 5 speed tranny when all the true players have 6 speeds.
I read this from a guy that owned an Infiniti and a Lexus. You own a Lexus, it does the explaining for you, you own the Infiniti, you have to explain why you made that purchase. For this price, many don't want that image.
4. Image. Again, childish but if you think its irrelevant, you like in a world with Peter-Pan. 50k 525s sell, as do 60k E320s, because people value the brand and prestige. It might not be worth it to you, but to most people, it does matter. Lexus has this, Infiniti does not. People still can't spell Infiniti.
Bottom line, we all saw the M becoming the magazine darling but unless you drive like Al Unser going to work, the GS will do the job better for you.
5. Dare I say it, people are tired of Lexus. People are tired of Lexus winning or putting out top products. Its like the Chicago Bulls when MJ played. People got tired of them always winning b/c you knew the outcome one way or the other. So people are looking for any other brand/car to one up Lexus.
6. You don't think Lexus will take this lying down do you
While Nissan is parts sharing to death and selling cheap produts expensively, Lexus is bringing out hybrids with technology Nissan has to buy from Toyota. Think about that.
Bottom line, the Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus. And its great there are now not one but three (RL included) Japanese sedans in the 40-60k range to chose from that are all near or tops in class. Kudos to Acura, Infintii and Lexus.
I doubt that will happen again, the M hit its target on the head. And saying "its no Lexus for 50k" there is nothing wrong with that. Infiniti still has little to no brand. Outside the G35 coupe, resale is horrific. The cars age worse than a Lexus. Sit in a 1997 I 30 and a 1997 ES 300. Big difference. Lexus is a proven winner. Infintii is in the middle of a turn-around. And the M, is buitl off a parts sharing process I cannot be involved in for 50k.
1. The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35. The M45 engine=solid
2. Platform from a stretched 350Z. Talk about Nissan profit for every M45 sold.
3. 5 speed tranny when all the true players have 6 speeds.
I read this from a guy that owned an Infiniti and a Lexus. You own a Lexus, it does the explaining for you, you own the Infiniti, you have to explain why you made that purchase. For this price, many don't want that image.
4. Image. Again, childish but if you think its irrelevant, you like in a world with Peter-Pan. 50k 525s sell, as do 60k E320s, because people value the brand and prestige. It might not be worth it to you, but to most people, it does matter. Lexus has this, Infiniti does not. People still can't spell Infiniti.
Bottom line, we all saw the M becoming the magazine darling but unless you drive like Al Unser going to work, the GS will do the job better for you.
5. Dare I say it, people are tired of Lexus. People are tired of Lexus winning or putting out top products. Its like the Chicago Bulls when MJ played. People got tired of them always winning b/c you knew the outcome one way or the other. So people are looking for any other brand/car to one up Lexus.
6. You don't think Lexus will take this lying down do you
While Nissan is parts sharing to death and selling cheap produts expensively, Lexus is bringing out hybrids with technology Nissan has to buy from Toyota. Think about that. Bottom line, the Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus.
And its great there are now not one but three (RL included) Japanese sedans in the 40-60k range to chose from that are all near or tops in class. Kudos to Acura, Infintii and Lexus.
Last edited by LexFather; 03-25-05 at 02:04 PM.
03-25-05, 02:05 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Bottom line, the Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus.
03-25-05, 02:23 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Quote of the week?
Originally Posted by csukoh78
I think the M45 looks great. It is the only luxury car that I have seen that looks like a man designed it...rugged lines, handsome car. Big V8. Rear wheel drive. Not all sissified like many other cars in the price range. Lexus? Please...looks like it should be on "The View." No metrosexuals here, just premium vehicle.
Looks like the kind of car that one would drive to a Scotch and cigar.
I am so glad that a premium Jap company has realized that Americans want their V8's, rear wheel drive, and Jap quality and dependability.
I like my G35...but when the time comes, I'll look Infiniti's way again.
Looks like the kind of car that one would drive to a Scotch and cigar.
I am so glad that a premium Jap company has realized that Americans want their V8's, rear wheel drive, and Jap quality and dependability.
I like my G35...but when the time comes, I'll look Infiniti's way again.
03-25-05, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Bottom line, the Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus.
03-25-05, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ktiger
Am I on a BMW or MB forum?! Even today when you visit either of the afore mentioned forums you read statements like, "...Lexus still isn't a BMW or MB...". How in the world have we descend to this level.
The MB and Benz arrogance is slightly different, as many just don't acknowledge Lexus as anything but hooked up Camrys. Here, we acknowledge Infiniti is a good brand but still not up to par to Lexus standards.
Its begins from the bottom. Drive any comparable Toyota or Nissan. Huge difference in assembly. The Nissan will be the faster car/SUV though, 9 times out of 10.
03-25-05, 02:46 PM
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"Outside the G35 coupe, resale is horrific."
That is false. The G35 sedan and the FX also have excellent resale value. Not as good as the G35 Coupe, but very good nonetheless.
"The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35."
True, but guess where the Toyota 3.5 is headed. That's right, just about every Toyota product in a couple years. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as the GR and the VQ are both great engines.
"Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus."
Ahh, reminds me of what BMW and MB fans say about Lexus.
That is false. The G35 sedan and the FX also have excellent resale value. Not as good as the G35 Coupe, but very good nonetheless.
"The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35."
True, but guess where the Toyota 3.5 is headed. That's right, just about every Toyota product in a couple years. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as the GR and the VQ are both great engines.
"Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus."
Ahh, reminds me of what BMW and MB fans say about Lexus.
03-25-05, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
You know, all these reviews remind me of how the press was drooling over the Q45 over the LS. And we know how that went.
I doubt that will happen again, the M hit its target on the head. And saying "its no Lexus for 50k" there is nothing wrong with that. Infiniti still has little to no brand. Outside the G35 coupe, resale is horrific. The cars age worse than a Lexus. Sit in a 1997 I 30 and a 1997 ES 300. Big difference. Lexus is a proven winner. Infintii is in the middle of a turn-around. And the M, is buitl off a parts sharing process I cannot be involved in for 50k.
1. The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35. The M45 engine=solid
Nothing wrong with that. Toyota's V6 will be shared in the Camry, Highlander, Avalon, Sienna, IS, GS, RX, etc.
2. Platform from a stretched 350Z. Talk about Nissan profit for every M45 sold.
3. 5 speed tranny when all the true players have 6 speeds.
A lot of the positive buzz has been coming from the 5 speed and the downshift rev-match feature
I read this from a guy that owned an Infiniti and a Lexus. You own a Lexus, it does the explaining for you, you own the Infiniti, you have to explain why you made that purchase. For this price, many don't want that image.
True. My response to that would be getting him in the front passenger seat and say, "Lets take a ride"
4. Image. Again, childish but if you think its irrelevant, you like in a world with Peter-Pan. 50k 525s sell, as do 60k E320s, because people value the brand and prestige. It might not be worth it to you, but to most people, it does matter. Lexus has this, Infiniti does not. People still can't spell Infiniti.
Again, true but we'll see where this one heads. The G and FX already gave Infiniti a pretty good running start. And look at the QX56 sales.
If Infiniti can sell a $50k monstrosity to the tune of 1200-1300 units a month, the more pleasant looking M can definitely achieve its target of 2000 units/mo. without much difficulty. Time will tell.
Bottom line, we all saw the M becoming the magazine darling but unless you drive like Al Unser going to work, the GS will do the job better for you.
5. Dare I say it, people are tired of Lexus. People are tired of Lexus winning or putting out top products. Its like the Chicago Bulls when MJ played. People got tired of them always winning b/c you knew the outcome one way or the other. So people are looking for any other brand/car to one up Lexus.
6. You don't think Lexus will take this lying down do you While Nissan is parts sharing to death and selling cheap produts expensively, Lexus is bringing out hybrids with technology Nissan has to buy from Toyota. Think about that.
Bottom line, the Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus. And its great there are now not one but three (RL included) Japanese sedans in the 40-60k range to chose from that are all near or tops in class. Kudos to Acura, Infintii and Lexus.
I doubt that will happen again, the M hit its target on the head. And saying "its no Lexus for 50k" there is nothing wrong with that. Infiniti still has little to no brand. Outside the G35 coupe, resale is horrific. The cars age worse than a Lexus. Sit in a 1997 I 30 and a 1997 ES 300. Big difference. Lexus is a proven winner. Infintii is in the middle of a turn-around. And the M, is buitl off a parts sharing process I cannot be involved in for 50k.
1. The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35. The M45 engine=solid
Nothing wrong with that. Toyota's V6 will be shared in the Camry, Highlander, Avalon, Sienna, IS, GS, RX, etc.
2. Platform from a stretched 350Z. Talk about Nissan profit for every M45 sold.
3. 5 speed tranny when all the true players have 6 speeds.
A lot of the positive buzz has been coming from the 5 speed and the downshift rev-match feature
I read this from a guy that owned an Infiniti and a Lexus. You own a Lexus, it does the explaining for you, you own the Infiniti, you have to explain why you made that purchase. For this price, many don't want that image.
True. My response to that would be getting him in the front passenger seat and say, "Lets take a ride"
4. Image. Again, childish but if you think its irrelevant, you like in a world with Peter-Pan. 50k 525s sell, as do 60k E320s, because people value the brand and prestige. It might not be worth it to you, but to most people, it does matter. Lexus has this, Infiniti does not. People still can't spell Infiniti.
Again, true but we'll see where this one heads. The G and FX already gave Infiniti a pretty good running start. And look at the QX56 sales.
If Infiniti can sell a $50k monstrosity to the tune of 1200-1300 units a month, the more pleasant looking M can definitely achieve its target of 2000 units/mo. without much difficulty. Time will tell.
Bottom line, we all saw the M becoming the magazine darling but unless you drive like Al Unser going to work, the GS will do the job better for you.
5. Dare I say it, people are tired of Lexus. People are tired of Lexus winning or putting out top products. Its like the Chicago Bulls when MJ played. People got tired of them always winning b/c you knew the outcome one way or the other. So people are looking for any other brand/car to one up Lexus.
6. You don't think Lexus will take this lying down do you
While Nissan is parts sharing to death and selling cheap produts expensively, Lexus is bringing out hybrids with technology Nissan has to buy from Toyota. Think about that. Bottom line, the Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus.
And its great there are now not one but three (RL included) Japanese sedans in the 40-60k range to chose from that are all near or tops in class. Kudos to Acura, Infintii and Lexus.Look where each is now.
True, Infiniti is not as prestigious or as well known as Lexus; there's no denying that.
But they are in the midst of a huge makeover that began with the G/FX and will continue with the M.
Who would've guessed that the G35, with its sub-par interior poor ergonomics, would be doing as well as it is today?
I sure that the car mags that praised the G35 helped it out, and I think the M will follow suit.
By winning these comparos, the M is getting more and more publicity and recognition that will bring buyers to showrooms.
A brand name can only take you so far. It's the product itself that will ultimately determine its success.
I think of all companies, Toyota/Lexus is most aware of that.
The M will not significantly challege the 5, GS and E for sales, but it will definitely get its foot in the door and make some noise.
Last edited by psteng19; 03-25-05 at 02:56 PM.
03-25-05, 02:53 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by jrock65
"Outside the G35 coupe, resale is horrific."
That is false. The G35 sedan and the FX also have excellent resale value. Not as good as the G35 Coupe, but very good nonetheless.
"The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35."
True, but guess where the Toyota 3.5 is headed. That's right, just about every Toyota product in a couple years. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as the GR and the VQ are both great engines.
"Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus."
Ahh, reminds me of what BMW and MB fans say about Lexus.
That is false. The G35 sedan and the FX also have excellent resale value. Not as good as the G35 Coupe, but very good nonetheless.
"The engine is used in just about every NIssan product in the M35."
True, but guess where the Toyota 3.5 is headed. That's right, just about every Toyota product in a couple years. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as the GR and the VQ are both great engines.
"Infiniti M can win every comparison in the world and its a great car but its still no Lexus."
Ahh, reminds me of what BMW and MB fans say about Lexus.
You talk about what is speculation and what is headed (and you might be right). I am talking about today. The VQ is a GREAT engine, but is in vans to SUVs to sedans to sports cars to luxury cars. Versatile, yes, rare, no. I am sure you took economics.
Both of you are wrong in your assumptions. I am using facts and supporting my opinions. This is not baseless opinion, no one here is saying anyting "sucks". So what is the problem?
Again, some of you just see what you want and want to pick your arguements.
03-25-05, 02:55 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by psteng19
Again, a lot of what you said has been said about Japanese cars when they first came ashore to the US, or when Lexus entered into the premium market.
Look where each is now.
True, Infiniti is not as prestigious or as well known as Lexus; there's no denying that.
But they are in the midst of a huge makeover that began with the G/FX and will continue with the M.
Who would've guessed that the G35, with its sub-par interior poor ergonomics, would be doing as well as it is today?
I would think all the car mags that raved about it helped it out some, and I think the M will follow suit.
By winning these comparos, the M is getting more and more publicity and recognition that will bring buyers to showrooms.
A brand name can only take you so far. It's the product itself that will ultimately determine its success.
I think of all companies, Toyota/Lexus is most aware of that.
The M will not significantly challege the 5, GS and E for sales, but it will definitely get its foot in the door and make some noise.
Look where each is now.
True, Infiniti is not as prestigious or as well known as Lexus; there's no denying that.
But they are in the midst of a huge makeover that began with the G/FX and will continue with the M.
Who would've guessed that the G35, with its sub-par interior poor ergonomics, would be doing as well as it is today?
I would think all the car mags that raved about it helped it out some, and I think the M will follow suit.
By winning these comparos, the M is getting more and more publicity and recognition that will bring buyers to showrooms.
A brand name can only take you so far. It's the product itself that will ultimately determine its success.
I think of all companies, Toyota/Lexus is most aware of that.
The M will not significantly challege the 5, GS and E for sales, but it will definitely get its foot in the door and make some noise.
03-25-05, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
So in 16 years of being a business, 1 SUV, and 1 car, the G35 have good resale. In 16 years. THis is a FACT. So to date, resale is still horrific. Do you know how HARD it is to overcome low resale? Ask Audi, they are still bleeding from the 60 minutes review.
You talk about what is speculation and what is headed (and you might be right). I am talking about today. The VQ is a GREAT engine, but is in vans to SUVs to sedans to sports cars to luxury cars. Versatile, yes, rare, no. I am sure you took economics.
Both of you are wrong in your assumptions. I am using facts and supporting my opinions. This is not baseless opinion, no one here is saying anyting "sucks". So what is the problem?
Again, some of you just see what you want and want to pick your arguements.
You talk about what is speculation and what is headed (and you might be right). I am talking about today. The VQ is a GREAT engine, but is in vans to SUVs to sedans to sports cars to luxury cars. Versatile, yes, rare, no. I am sure you took economics.
Both of you are wrong in your assumptions. I am using facts and supporting my opinions. This is not baseless opinion, no one here is saying anyting "sucks". So what is the problem?
Again, some of you just see what you want and want to pick your arguements.
"Outside the G35 coupe, resale is horrific."
That is a false statement as I pointed out. The resale of the G35 sedan is NOT horrific. The resale of the FX is NOT horrific. Period, as you like to say.
"Both of you are wrong in your assumptions."
Please point to one thing in my post where I was wrong.
"Read what you wrote and admit you're when you're wrong."
Good advice.