LexFather

I am looking for more interior pics. Am I looking at the wrong 5 forums? The Bimmerfest and Bimmerforums E60 5 threads are dead, no owners in there. Roadfly is too tough to navigate through

LexFather

You pretty much have to get a M5 kit for it to look acceptable.





At this point though the M5 has 19s, dropped, kit. So image the GS with 19s, and a drop and a kit.

EVen here, it doen't look German. It looks Japanese. Weird.

Sandman

I respect your opinion on that. if you don't really like the GS I can understand that. I really like how the 5 drives - actually I like the 3 series better.

But it is hard to argue at this point that the GS doesn't perform as well as other cars in it's class. We don't have a lot of test data for the GS back from the mags yet. We have some mags that show the 5 faster and other that show it slower than BMW claims. As I've said before, a few tenths difference can be expected due to all kinds of factors. If you ran 10 of the same model 5 times each you would probably have a 0.5s avg. variation. So unless you plan to be in a race it seems pointless to me to pick a car based on such a trivial difference. It would be like picking a wife because of her bra size - and ignoring all of her other qualities. As for what the manufacturers claim we have 2 cars with very similar specs, but enough differences that allow distinction.

And while Lexus may have missed the mark you wanted them to hit (I can understand your disappointment), they have hit it squarely for so many others that dont' care to have the absolute peak of every spec. The GS provides a real nice blend of so many things. So maybe I'm agreeing with you when you say that "it isn't focused enough to be either." I don't think that Lexus was trying to be the 5 or the Avalon - they were making a car that would uniquely appeal to many former GS owners by adding more handling capability and also adding more luxury, convenience and safety features. And the whole Lexus buying/service experience. And if they missed the mark for some, there are good options in the 5, M and RL.

chiawei

Sandman, I agree with your comment.

I just don' t think GS is the right car for me. I am a little dissappointed in some respect. In othe respect, i think GS did well.

Since 2001, I have gone through 3 BMW (530i, M3, M5), and currently owns 4 mercedes (CLK320 cabrio, E500, G55, and E55). My opinion and what i am looking for has changed quiet a bit during last 5 years or so. At my current situation, reliability is not really important to me nor is the dealership experience (as i could easily dump on car and go get another). So lexus reliability and experience has little effect on me. I would be more than happy to own a car that is focused on either side of spectrum instead of taking a middle ground.

However, this is not to say that GS is a bad car. It just not what I am looking for. As a sport sedan, i want more character in the car than GS can provide.

But i am quiet suprised that the new GS totally beats the E-class to pieces.
(read my review on the mbworld.org. )GS test drive report

PS. BTW, just wait until you see the respond i get tomorrow on the mbworld.org. You would be amazed by maturity of the owners overthere.

LexFather

I think I see what your saying. A Lexus will always be somewhat more isolated and be a "Lexus" in other areas. The 5 will always be slightly more sporty, more so with the manual and be a "BMW" in other areas.
Neither is a bad car and both look like tops in the segment. Clearly your experience with both brands is of advantage, especially with feedback here. Thanks

From Autoweek

DoubleTake: 2005 Cadillac STS vs. BMW 545i
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101893

The BMW wins but the STS shows well. Both great cars

Sandman

Wow! Maybe I can help you with your problem - If I can take the M5 off of you hands - just let me know!

Now I can see where you are coming from. Maybe you need to look for something more "exotic" like a Ferari Enzo or Lotus Elise. Or if you want a sedan: the new Maserati Quattroporte!

I can see why the GS doesn't exactly meet what you are looking for.

Ps - how do I get into the same bad situation you are in?!? Sign me up!

spwolf

Well you are now magazine racing. You pick results that you like, and disregard ones that you dont :-). Autoweek tested 545i manual 5.7 sec 2 different times, so that feels right.

What I pointed out before is that BMW felt faster for its HP ratings because it had more torque than similar hp-rated competition. However now it has less torque than competition, only way for it to feel faster would be shorter gearing, which is what BMW has always employed to get better 0-60 ratings. But even that falls out at some point in time. I just finished up reading European comparisment where 130d met Alfa 147 and Astra 1.9, and while in 0-60 it wiped the floors with them, in passing times it was actually slightly slower.

Now all BMW fans that have claimed for past quite few years how torque is all that matter, should still feel the same way. In that regard, new 530i should be dissapointment - it has 10lbs of torque less than GS300.

And I dont think Lexus missed the mark with GS - it is still Lexus, which is why it is different than BMW driving experience. And I dont think Lexus should ever drive like an BMW, thats why you have BMW's for!

I like 5 series because of its driving skills, but I would never buy one, because not only it looks uninspiring, expecially inside (which is where I would sit 3hrs per day) and because I dont need all out sports sedan and all that entails... Which is why I like Lexi... And what Lexus GS should be is an luxurious sports sedan, which is comfortable enough to ride in for tens of hours yet feels solidly connected to the road while letting you go wild once in a while.

I still have great respect for BMW enginering, I just think that they look pretty bad but then again looks are very subjective. So while I think 5 series is in certain ways an awesome driver's car, I would never desire to buy one - I always test my self by asking would I buy the car if it didnt have badge upfront and 5 series would not pass that test.

Also - I dont think that 50-60k sedan should be too focused on any particular thing, it should do everything quite well for the money.

Now, if you can afford 5 different luxury cars, I can see while your opinion might differ from mine.

chiawei

1. Autoweek has rarely tested anything close to manuf. claim. In majority are quiet off from manuf. If you look at its number the bias will propogate. Both MT and C&D has excellent times for 545i. So comment stands.

2. Wrong. Take my old cars as example. My 01 530i was heavier has same HP rating and slightly less torque than wife's Acura TL (2000). The 530i has additional powerloss due to rear drive. Both are 5 speed automatic. 530i was siginificantly faster than the TL. If you look at both gear ratio, you will find what you are saying is not the case. I did dyno, and i was suprised to see that 530i put about 5 to 10 HP more to the rear wheels than TL did on its front wheels. Like i have said, either BMW under rate its engine or it's powerloss through out the powertrain goes beyond modern physics.

The new 530i will not be a dissappointment despite low torque number. The E90 330i 6speed(about 80lbs less weight) just beat GS430 in 0-60 with 1/4 miles in sub 15 second @98 mph. The 530i will not be significantly slower than 330i. Which means a 6 speed 530i could be neck and neck with GS430 and much faster than GS300.

You and i are in different spectrum. I value character of a car way more than luxury. I would tend to think most buyer in this class is looking more at sport side. Just look at the new M45. In addition, even the GS is shifting more toward sportiness this time around. That should tell you something.

Like i said, i think GS is a good car. Just to to my liking. It however does beat the crap out of the W211 E500 that i currently beat around in. So i will give kudo's to that.

Dynasty SC

i doubt lexus is ever going to match the sportiness of the 5... i was riding around in a 545i tonight... and i have to say that its definitely quick.. the one i was riding in had SMG and we were punching it between 85 and 120 quite a bit. the ride is incredibly stable and steering precise. its probably the same as everyone expects... if you want sportiness, driving fun, and handling.... get the 5... if you want reliability, smooth driving, and luxury... get the GS. sadly enough.. i like the look of the new 5 better than the new GS... and the new M as well. the interior of the BMW does feel rather cheap for what u pay... the leather just kind of sucks.

ktiger

I totally agree with your statement on the M5 looking much better than the 5 series, although the rear end still leaves a lot to be desired. The stance on that car from the front and side view give the M5 a very aggressive look.

I can't wait to see the new GS with a kit.

lexguynj

Chiawei - I am a BMW Owner and fan also, but it is unrealistic to say that reliability is not important to you and you can easily dump a car and get another to resolve this issue. That is not a realistic argument when comparing a BMW to a Lexus and bring up the reliability issue. Not everyone has this luxury and wastefullness. We all can agree Lexus reliability and quality is better than BMW.

Reliability is not only having to spend time to go into service to fix problems with your car, but also is also tied to safety factors also. So far my BMWs have been reliable, so I am very fortunate and I love BMWs due to the driving experience. Can I sacrifice lower reliability scrores as compared to Lexus for the pure driving fun of the BMW, YES. But to pay this much for a vehicle and not have the reliability is not good either.

My brother love his 2004 545i, overall it's reliable, but has been back into the dealership several times for recalls and minor quality issues. He doesn't mind, because he loves how this car drives so much that it's either a sacrfice or compromise to him. This is the mentality of the BMW owner, unless his car blows up, then he will always drive a BMW & never drive a Lexus.

Now if BMW had Lexus Quality and Reliability then the combination of the 2 would be an easy decision on which mfg to buy.

chiawei

Like i have said, to me it's not important. I will agree it's annoying that i have to drop off the car in the morning and get a free rental (majority of time the service advisor would come and drop of the loaner, so not a biggie).

I do have other cars to drive around if one just dies. Plus MB's service is quiet good and responsive (however BMW does imho totally blows in this respect).

My 3 BMW has been relative trouble free (other than constant crashing navi, a broken sunroof panel on the M3, and o-ring issue on the M5 during break-in). I will agree that BMW reliability is not up to par with lexus. But to me the gap is not as great as the car itself. BMW is just way more fun to drive. Hence to me it's not an important issue, and I am not claiming that everyone is the same.

Chance of BMW ever come close to that is probably 0. I am more afraid that infiniti may be there 1st before either lexus picks up BMW's fun factor, or BMW picks up lexus's quality and reliability.

Three years ago, infiniti was left for dead. But nissan is on a warpath right now. Amazing turn around. Then again, what is with the quartz clock. It's a fetish that nissna/infiniti should lose. But then again, I can't say anything either, because mercedes also have clocks in the instrument panel. (BTW, why is a clock so important that it needed to be on the instrument panel? Heck you would think that on cars like E55, a oil temp gauge, battery gauge... would be more important than a big round clock ).