I have two questions which will stimulate some discussion . . . .

a. Are today's Lexus designed and built to the same standards as our beloved Series 2 GS's?

b. Are today's Toyota models designed and built to the same standards as Lexus, minus the bling?

We have 3 Lexus vehicles in the family a 99 GS400, '02 SC430 and '17 GX460 (hers)....all are rock solid. I'm just a fan of the 2GS. If something were to happen to it I would just look for the lowest mileage 2GS I could find. There is nothing else I want to drive. I can't speak to Toyota models built today because I've always been a fan of older Lexus models. I guess I am getting old lol.

I personally believe our older lexus were built a little better. In example, i have an 02 2GS i bought right out of high school with 113k miles on the clock, its been my daily for the past 7 years and the car has been so reliable and rock solid to this day. Right now i still daily it with just a hair over 180k and it is just now barely starting to have some rattles on the sun roof cover and around the gauge cluster. Now, compared to my recently purchased MY11 ISF, which is 9 years newer than the GS, im already experiencing dashboard rattles and the materials to me just doesn't feel as premium as my older Lexus. Yes, the F is an absolute fun car to drive and a completely different car compared to the GS, but at the end of the day, i just love the materials, fit and finish and smooth drivetrain of my 2GS.

I mean, we're going to be more than a little biased in this forum, but no.

Anecdotally, I have a friend who is seriously disappointed in his current-gen RX. The worst of his issues has been a sunroof leak, but he's had that thing at the dealer for repairs under warranty way more than he should over the last couple of years. It's his first and most likely last Lexus.

The years spanning the early-'90s to the early-'00s were the golden age of Lexus. The cars were built to make a statement in the automotive industry and over-engineered solutions were not uncommon between the LS, GS, and SC. Cars in general these days aren't built the same way as they were in the past. Things like the SC's elaborate door hinges or the dyno pull with the champagne glass pyramid on the LS400 hood are little details I associate with Lexuses back then. Also, whereas you would have different center console panels—made of real wood—depending on whether you have heated seats in your 2GS, these days you get a plastic panel of blank/dead buttons if an optional feature is missing in your car.

I don't focus too much on things like minor rattles and squeaks, because the 2GS has its common issues like the sunroof cover rattle that we like to fix and then conveniently forget, or issues like the door lock actuators, or non-issues that get amateur car owners crying about how there should be a recall like lower ball joints or the paper thin body-colored tape on the roof drip rails. Older Lexuses still seem to feel more solid even if newer ones are better equipped feature-wise.

The electronics and infotainment systems of newer cars can contribute to a perceived decrease in fit and finish because they are often badly designed and have poor ergonomics. Like what the hell is with that damn rectangular joystick or the touchpad in new Lexuses? They both seriously suck. You're supposed to be driving, not navigating a laptop integrated into your dashboard. However, since these features are here to stay, Lexus could at least stop ****ing around with these idiotic touch-free screen navigation interfaces and just give people a proper trackball and mouse cursor.

While I don't think Toyota/Lexus has fallen on the planned obsolescence wagon as bad as some manufacturers (looking at you, Germans), I do think that they are falling into the 'luxury = more gadgets and gizmos' and not the 'luxury = quality' camp, sadly. Our cars were expensive new... and built accordingly. Focus back then went into the core elements of what makes a car nice: engine, transmission, fit and finish, quality of materials, etc. Nowadays, people just want more crap to distract them from driving or isolate them from driving.

The PO of my GS400 had just upgraded to a 2015 GS350 when he was selling, and we had a nice discussion on comparing the two. He said hands-down the newer GS handled better, was smoother, quieter; basically better in every category that a luxury car could be, but the car was so...detached. Like driving in a computer game. He said he'd miss the older GS' character as simply a car... that offered a more engaging driving experience while also oozing old-school quality and luxury. Maybe that's why I've always owned 90's cars. You get an arguably modern driving experience without any of the fluff that goes on new cars.

My major gripe with most of the luxury manufacturers, that thankfully, Lexus has not followed to the extent of other brands is the trend of Luxury = Sporty. I don't want a sporty car when I am driving a Lexus ES, I want a soft car with no "sports" suspension or "sports" anything else.

The years spanning the early-'90s to the early-'00s were the golden age of Lexus. THIS

Cars built to a higher standard for slightly less money b/c Lexus was chasing the Germans

I think no, in the automotive field, in general.

Once again, there is one camp you can blame for this. Average Americans (probably a good chunk of them millenials.)

They do not actually care about build quality. They care about options and fuel economy. Everything else is down on the list.
The USDM market is huge, for car sales. Build quality is barely relevant when you are renting someone else's car for 1-3 years, which. is what a LOT of Americans do. I wonder what lease rates/capita are in other market/

Just look at modern car reviews. ____ has automatic ______, which, was on the ____ _____ 3 years ago. I do not give a _____ who had what first. I want build quality, paramount. That is one main reason I drive 2 01 Toyota Motor Corp cars. (One with ~300k)

What extent do you mean? They have an F Sport RSX, don't they? You can thank the USDM for that, too. I wonder how many Lexus customers ask for an ES F? You know those people are out there. (Same ones that got rear diffusers on a Dodge Caravan.)

Your comments are most interesting and I agree with nearly all of them. RVAGS400’s colleague hit the spot when he said that the Series 2 GS character has been lost in the newer models, as worthy as they are. Certainly it is a different experience.

We are all driving a model getting on for 20 years old and 200,000 -300,000 miles (Mine’s done 190,000). In general they seem to carry on with original engines, gearboxes, steering racks, radiators, rear-axles, starter motors and incredibly, shock-absorbers. Also oil consumption and fluid leaks do not appear to be a common problem. Some items sadly, do not last forever such as alternators, air-conditioning compressors and lower ball-joints.

I do not think for one moment that a Rolls, Jaguar or Mercedes would stand the test of time in the same way. Maybe a Volvo.

An interesting comment by my Lexus dealership reception engineer. In discussion, he said that the eventual demise for a Series 1 or 2 GS is failure of the wiring loom as the insulation goes brittle and causes short-circuits. In other words activating the heated rear window powers up the windscreen washers and horn.The point of my post was that the Series 2 was engineered for longevity and I was seeking views whether today’s Lexus are similarly blessed. As well as my Series 2 I have Series 4 GS250 F-Sport and an IS-C. Both are a pleasure to own and drive but I have yet to find out how long they will eventually last.

As an extension of this I sought views whether the same ‘aircraft-quality’ engineering goes into a Toyota-badged car. We have an interesting vehicle called the Toyota Auris being made at their UK factory and the 2019 petrol hybrid version looks fantastic. This is around the size of an IS but I don’t know whether this will be marketed in the US.

Incidentally, thank you for sending Mr Trump over here on his visit. He was well-received (apart from the 10,000 protesters in central London) and particularly The Queen. She said that he is quite different to the other 11 presidents she had met during her reign. It’s a shame that the rest of the Royal Family could not join them but Prince Phillip has a podiatrist appointment and Charles and the boys were otherwise engaged. We’ve waived the bill for landing fees and refuelling Air Force One at Stanstead – I hope he got back safe.

The Toyota Auris was recently introduced to North America as the Scion iM, then Toyota Corolla iM. Regardless of what badge it wears, it's essentially just the latest Corolla hatchback.

That seems a little at odds with what I thought. The current Auris is family size (by British standards anyway!) and the new one looks about the same size but has great lines.

Take a look at this . . . .

Please do not discuss politics on this forum. I might have to ask you how to say "Trumptard" in UK English.

This questions are applicable to other brands as well.

I've driven new (2016/7) IS/NX/ES/RX and GS. The GS interior is way improved over the previous generation, and far better than my friend's 2018 Jaguar SUV. But, yeah, my feeling is those 2006-2012 models show some bean-counting. The new NX/RX I've driven are complete crap and shouldn't wear the badge. I hope to replace my 2000 GS4 with a 2005 GS or LS.