The cost of ownership? Thanking CL members.
02-23-18, 09:10 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
The cost of ownership? Thanking CL members.
First, let me start by saying that this post is not a question or an instructional thread. This is just to report what happened, or what did not happen with my car and, a way of thanking all of you who take the time to report and document how-to threads so the rest of us can learn (you know who you are).
I have been a CL member for several years (2012), mostly reading and learning about our cars. It has been within the past couple of years that I have contributed to this club.
A bit of background: I have a stock 2002 GS430. I am the first owner. It has 103,000 miles. I am not a mechanic. However, I am old enough to recognize when I can do something or when it is out of my reach and, not so old that I am not willing to learn and try something new, knees and lower back permitting. For example, things that I have done, with the knowledge of CL and Google: I change oil and filter every 5,000 miles. At 95,000 miles I changed the brake fluid, power steering fluid, drained and refilled the tranny fluid X3 (the dealer had done a flush at 40,000 miles), spark plugs and cleaned the throttle body. At 90,000 miles the indy mechanic changed timing belt, water pump, serpentine belt, upper and lower radiator hoses.
Now, to make a short story long...
My car's symptoms: nothing, zero, zilch, nada,... Maybe, once in a blue moon, some light vibrations on some roads when going 65-70 mph. Otherwise, and I think--thought?-- I know my car, it rides perfectly, almost like when I bought her.
After years of reading on CL the most common problems our cars encounter, albeit most are not my exact model but close enough, I decided that I should try and check my car. Why now? Well, I was riding with 3 other people (I'm usually the only one in the car), when the car scraped driving into a driveway. This happened a total of three times. One of them convincingly stated that "your shocks are gone"; the other two continued on their phone, if anybody was curious.
So, what does and old not-mechanic guy does when the back of his car scrapes when driving into a driveway? He puts the cars on stands and starts checking the front of the car.
Remove two wheels, check. So far so good.
Remove caliper and pads; not so check. The pads are thin, but still some miles in them. After all, they were changed at 40,000 miles at the dealership when I was younger (foolish?) and working and thought I did not have the time to learn about my own car, a.k.a., investment. I trusted the dealer. The rotors need to be changed. I would have them cut, but for a few extra dollars I'll get new ones.
Outer tie rod I could move with my hand. Add them to the list. Inner tie has no movement.
Lower ball joint boot has gash. I removed it and I could move it with my hand. Add them to the list. I have seen the pics on CL when they fail!
The shocks look clean, no fluid leaking. The bounce test had been negative. Once removed, it wasn't too difficult to move them. Since I know I'm changing the rear ones might as well do the front ones. The list is growing.
Lastly, the dreaded caster arm also known in Lexulese as the rear lower suspension arm or number 2 lower suspension arm. It looked good; it had some superficial cuts that did not appear to either go all the way thru or to the ends. Once removed I was able to see the real damage. Boy, were they loose! Two more items to buy.
The rest of the components,i.e., sway bar bushings, number 1 lower suspension arm, upper control arm, stabilizer bar link,... looked acceptable, in my non-mechanic opinion.
Lesson learned: you really may not know the full damage to a part until you remove it. I was fortunate enough that having spent countless hours on CL, I had read all the problems other people were having and what parts were the most frequently involved.
Now comes the fun part.
With the list of parts I want to change I used the search box. Opinions are varied as human beings are. Go with aftermarket parts, look in ebay or craigslist, always use oem parts, beware of cheap chinese parts, etc. To every opinion there was a counter opinion. This company makes the shocks for Lexus, they are the same; the ride quality is not the same if you use that companies' parts. If you buy this part aftermarket, even from a reputable company, it will not last. Why pay the dealer 2-3 times the price when you can find a similar one on amazon? The more I read the more confused I got. One thing was clear, if I wanted the original feel of my car I would have to go oem.
I emailed the only Lexus dealer in the town I live and promptly received an email in return with the price of the parts; I had previously contacted a Toyota dealership and was informed that the parts I wanted were Lexus-only parts. The total cost was over $1700.00 plus tax. This would not be a bad expense considering that I had done nothing to the car, except for the above, in 16 years! But, since I have all the time in the world and I am known to be frugal (my wife says it has another name), I went hunting for prices on Google. I did not even ask how much labor would be because I didn't want to run the risk of having my heart giving me problems.
Remember, if you have made it up to this point, I did say it was going to be a long story.
As you might imagine, prices for the same oem part are all over the board. There is no logic to this, no discernible pattern that I could tell. Since nobody is selling at a loss, as far as I know, the margin for profits are ridiculous.
I finally decided on two places from where to buy the parts. This is the list:
( I ):
Strut 48510-80236 2 $164.34
Lower Ball Joint 43330-39535 1 $64.32
Lower Ball Joint 43340-39415 1 $64.32
Rear Lower Arm 48660-30281 1 $158.00
Rear Lower Arm 48670-30281 1 $158.00
Outer Tie Rod 45460-59015 1 $53.28
Outer Tie Rod 45470-59015 1 $53.28
SubTotal: $715.54
Shipping (Standard Ground): $21.90
Tax: $42.93
Total: $780.37
( II ):
Part Number Part Name Price Quantity Total
43512-53020 Brake Rotor $65.69 2 $131.38
04465-22312 Brake Pads $50.74 1 $50.74
Subtotal: $182.12
Shipping (Standard): $26.16
Total: $208.28
The Grand Total for the front end: $ 988.55.
Well, the last part I was waiting for has just arrived. Now to put everything back, see what parts I need for the rear, do a 4 wheel alignment and hopefully enjoy a better ride.
If there is interest in this thread I will report, if anything, what has improved. Hopefully, after money, time and effort spent on this project I will notice a difference. If nothing else. I will have a safer car.
Thank you CL members for the knowledge and motivation to do this project!!
I have been a CL member for several years (2012), mostly reading and learning about our cars. It has been within the past couple of years that I have contributed to this club.
A bit of background: I have a stock 2002 GS430. I am the first owner. It has 103,000 miles. I am not a mechanic. However, I am old enough to recognize when I can do something or when it is out of my reach and, not so old that I am not willing to learn and try something new, knees and lower back permitting. For example, things that I have done, with the knowledge of CL and Google: I change oil and filter every 5,000 miles. At 95,000 miles I changed the brake fluid, power steering fluid, drained and refilled the tranny fluid X3 (the dealer had done a flush at 40,000 miles), spark plugs and cleaned the throttle body. At 90,000 miles the indy mechanic changed timing belt, water pump, serpentine belt, upper and lower radiator hoses.
Now, to make a short story long...
My car's symptoms: nothing, zero, zilch, nada,... Maybe, once in a blue moon, some light vibrations on some roads when going 65-70 mph. Otherwise, and I think--thought?-- I know my car, it rides perfectly, almost like when I bought her.
After years of reading on CL the most common problems our cars encounter, albeit most are not my exact model but close enough, I decided that I should try and check my car. Why now? Well, I was riding with 3 other people (I'm usually the only one in the car), when the car scraped driving into a driveway. This happened a total of three times. One of them convincingly stated that "your shocks are gone"; the other two continued on their phone, if anybody was curious.
So, what does and old not-mechanic guy does when the back of his car scrapes when driving into a driveway? He puts the cars on stands and starts checking the front of the car.
Remove two wheels, check. So far so good.
Remove caliper and pads; not so check. The pads are thin, but still some miles in them. After all, they were changed at 40,000 miles at the dealership when I was younger (foolish?) and working and thought I did not have the time to learn about my own car, a.k.a., investment. I trusted the dealer. The rotors need to be changed. I would have them cut, but for a few extra dollars I'll get new ones.
Outer tie rod I could move with my hand. Add them to the list. Inner tie has no movement.
Lower ball joint boot has gash. I removed it and I could move it with my hand. Add them to the list. I have seen the pics on CL when they fail!
The shocks look clean, no fluid leaking. The bounce test had been negative. Once removed, it wasn't too difficult to move them. Since I know I'm changing the rear ones might as well do the front ones. The list is growing.
Lastly, the dreaded caster arm also known in Lexulese as the rear lower suspension arm or number 2 lower suspension arm. It looked good; it had some superficial cuts that did not appear to either go all the way thru or to the ends. Once removed I was able to see the real damage. Boy, were they loose! Two more items to buy.
The rest of the components,i.e., sway bar bushings, number 1 lower suspension arm, upper control arm, stabilizer bar link,... looked acceptable, in my non-mechanic opinion.
Lesson learned: you really may not know the full damage to a part until you remove it. I was fortunate enough that having spent countless hours on CL, I had read all the problems other people were having and what parts were the most frequently involved.
Now comes the fun part.
With the list of parts I want to change I used the search box. Opinions are varied as human beings are. Go with aftermarket parts, look in ebay or craigslist, always use oem parts, beware of cheap chinese parts, etc. To every opinion there was a counter opinion. This company makes the shocks for Lexus, they are the same; the ride quality is not the same if you use that companies' parts. If you buy this part aftermarket, even from a reputable company, it will not last. Why pay the dealer 2-3 times the price when you can find a similar one on amazon? The more I read the more confused I got. One thing was clear, if I wanted the original feel of my car I would have to go oem.
I emailed the only Lexus dealer in the town I live and promptly received an email in return with the price of the parts; I had previously contacted a Toyota dealership and was informed that the parts I wanted were Lexus-only parts. The total cost was over $1700.00 plus tax. This would not be a bad expense considering that I had done nothing to the car, except for the above, in 16 years! But, since I have all the time in the world and I am known to be frugal (my wife says it has another name), I went hunting for prices on Google. I did not even ask how much labor would be because I didn't want to run the risk of having my heart giving me problems.
Remember, if you have made it up to this point, I did say it was going to be a long story.
As you might imagine, prices for the same oem part are all over the board. There is no logic to this, no discernible pattern that I could tell. Since nobody is selling at a loss, as far as I know, the margin for profits are ridiculous.
I finally decided on two places from where to buy the parts. This is the list:
( I ):
Strut 48510-80236 2 $164.34
Lower Ball Joint 43330-39535 1 $64.32
Lower Ball Joint 43340-39415 1 $64.32
Rear Lower Arm 48660-30281 1 $158.00
Rear Lower Arm 48670-30281 1 $158.00
Outer Tie Rod 45460-59015 1 $53.28
Outer Tie Rod 45470-59015 1 $53.28
SubTotal: $715.54
Shipping (Standard Ground): $21.90
Tax: $42.93
Total: $780.37
( II ):
Part Number Part Name Price Quantity Total
43512-53020 Brake Rotor $65.69 2 $131.38
04465-22312 Brake Pads $50.74 1 $50.74
Subtotal: $182.12
Shipping (Standard): $26.16
Total: $208.28
The Grand Total for the front end: $ 988.55.
Well, the last part I was waiting for has just arrived. Now to put everything back, see what parts I need for the rear, do a 4 wheel alignment and hopefully enjoy a better ride.
If there is interest in this thread I will report, if anything, what has improved. Hopefully, after money, time and effort spent on this project I will notice a difference. If nothing else. I will have a safer car.
Thank you CL members for the knowledge and motivation to do this project!!
The following users liked this post:
Fms01 (02-23-18)
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Mr Jokster (05-15-18)
02-23-18, 04:55 PM
#4
I've owned a bunch of Toyotas and find that the suspension is usually starting to need replacement around 100k miles.
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tiguy99 (02-24-18)
02-23-18, 06:15 PM
#5
As JonGS3 mentioned, change the sway bar end links. I literally changed every single part on my front suspension cause of vibrations. Only thing that fixed it was saw bar end links. I changed upper and lower control arms, Caster arm, ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, coil overs, sway bar bushings.
02-23-18, 08:51 PM
#6
As JonGS3 mentioned, change the sway bar end links. I literally changed every single part on my front suspension cause of vibrations. Only thing that fixed it was saw bar end links. I changed upper and lower control arms, Caster arm, ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, coil overs, sway bar bushings.
04-11-18, 02:37 PM
#7
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Knowing the amount of interest this did not generate, which I can not blame anybody since it it is more boring than a 2018 political commentary, I am posting this for my own benefit. It is a good way to remember what I did to the car and to show those that may be interested how much $$$ they can expect to pay.
Since I did not get the parts--all OEM Lexus-- locally, I had to pay shipping and taxes, which is included is the total amount I paid. I did all the work except where noted.
I hope the formatting keeps once I post it.( As to why OEM I explained it the # 1 thread.)
According to KBB, a stock, fully loaded 2002 GS430 in good shape is currently worth $2800-4200. So, did I spend too much doing this, considering it is a 16 y.o. vehicle?
Thanks for the suggestions. As you all can see, I took them!
Well, since I am writing this right after finishing the car, I am tired. It is 1730 hours and it is time for a beer.
Strut 48510-80236 2: $164.34
Lower Ball Joint 43330-39535 $64.32
Lower Ball Joint 43340-39415 $64.32
Rear Lower Arm 48660-30281 $158.00
Rear Lower Arm 48670-30281 $158.00
Outer Tie Rod 45460-59015 $53.28
Outer Tie Rod 45470-59015 $53.28
43512-53020 Brake Rotor $65.69 2: $131.38
04465-22312 Brake Pads $50.74
48610-39085 Upper Control Arm $359.10
48630-39055 Upper Control Arm $359.10
48815-30540 Stabilizer Bar Bushing 2: $42.62
48820-30030 Stabilizer Link $102.47
48810-30010 Stabilizer Link $102.13
42431-53011 Rotor $73.43 2: $146.86
04466-30161 Brake Pads $58.55
48530-80239 Strut $95.03 2: $190.06
48818-30100 Stabilizer Bar Bushing $11.58 2: $23.16
90105-08356 Stabilizer Link Bolt $1.08
90179-08206 Stabilizer Link Nut $0.95
48830-30080 Stabilizer Link $63.96 2: $127.92
Brake Hardware: $8.95
Alignment: $60.00
Radiator Cap: $18.6
12361-50111 Front Insulator—motor mounts-- $105.02 2: $210.04
12371-50200 Rear Mount—transmission mount-- $70.09
Labor for motor mounts: $220.00
GRAND TOTAL:$3164.89
Since I did not get the parts--all OEM Lexus-- locally, I had to pay shipping and taxes, which is included is the total amount I paid. I did all the work except where noted.
I hope the formatting keeps once I post it.( As to why OEM I explained it the # 1 thread.)
According to KBB, a stock, fully loaded 2002 GS430 in good shape is currently worth $2800-4200. So, did I spend too much doing this, considering it is a 16 y.o. vehicle?
Thanks for the suggestions. As you all can see, I took them!
Well, since I am writing this right after finishing the car, I am tired. It is 1730 hours and it is time for a beer.
Strut 48510-80236 2: $164.34
Lower Ball Joint 43330-39535 $64.32
Lower Ball Joint 43340-39415 $64.32
Rear Lower Arm 48660-30281 $158.00
Rear Lower Arm 48670-30281 $158.00
Outer Tie Rod 45460-59015 $53.28
Outer Tie Rod 45470-59015 $53.28
43512-53020 Brake Rotor $65.69 2: $131.38
04465-22312 Brake Pads $50.74
48610-39085 Upper Control Arm $359.10
48630-39055 Upper Control Arm $359.10
48815-30540 Stabilizer Bar Bushing 2: $42.62
48820-30030 Stabilizer Link $102.47
48810-30010 Stabilizer Link $102.13
42431-53011 Rotor $73.43 2: $146.86
04466-30161 Brake Pads $58.55
48530-80239 Strut $95.03 2: $190.06
48818-30100 Stabilizer Bar Bushing $11.58 2: $23.16
90105-08356 Stabilizer Link Bolt $1.08
90179-08206 Stabilizer Link Nut $0.95
48830-30080 Stabilizer Link $63.96 2: $127.92
Brake Hardware: $8.95
Alignment: $60.00
Radiator Cap: $18.6
12361-50111 Front Insulator—motor mounts-- $105.02 2: $210.04
12371-50200 Rear Mount—transmission mount-- $70.09
Labor for motor mounts: $220.00
GRAND TOTAL:$3164.89
Last edited by MedicalDoc; 04-11-18 at 02:50 PM.
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diamente (05-07-18)
Trending Topics
04-12-18, 07:21 PM
#8
Mortgage Slave
I wouldn't say it's a waste, especially if you're planning on keeping the car for much longer... over the course of ownership I don't think that amount you've paid is considerably expensive.
I'm kinda torn at the moment to sell off mine (01 GS300, 313k km on the clock) for something a little more fresh but the 2nd gen has easily been the most reliable car I've owned (she's been with me for about 9 years now and I've covered about 160~170k km).
In terms of replacing broken parts I have replaced the AC servo motors, a seized AC compressor and bad outer tie rod... all replaced with new genuine parts. I've had 2 timing belt/water pump services done since ownership and I also replaced all my lower front end components last year (all OEM except the sway bar end links - they're Moog). Even at 313k nothing is abnormal performance-wise (no leaks, smells or smoke, no christmas tree on the dash). Next up for me is a rear end suspension refresh and fix of small things like rear door lock actuators.
I'm kinda torn at the moment to sell off mine (01 GS300, 313k km on the clock) for something a little more fresh but the 2nd gen has easily been the most reliable car I've owned (she's been with me for about 9 years now and I've covered about 160~170k km).
In terms of replacing broken parts I have replaced the AC servo motors, a seized AC compressor and bad outer tie rod... all replaced with new genuine parts. I've had 2 timing belt/water pump services done since ownership and I also replaced all my lower front end components last year (all OEM except the sway bar end links - they're Moog). Even at 313k nothing is abnormal performance-wise (no leaks, smells or smoke, no christmas tree on the dash). Next up for me is a rear end suspension refresh and fix of small things like rear door lock actuators.
05-08-18, 11:59 AM
#9
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
These I forgot to include.
In July 2017:
At 90K miles,timing belt,water pump,--Aisin--, Toyota super long life coolant, upper and lower radiator hoses, serpentine belt:$1024.00
At 95K miles: Denso spark plugs and throttle body cleaning: $53.00
TOTAL COST --16 years of ownership-- : $4480.00. ($280/year)
I have not included the cost of oil and filter, wipers, air and cabin filters, brake fluid, transmission fluid,differential fluid, power steering fluid, miscellaneous,...For obvious reasons, gasoline is not included.
As far as tires:
In July 2017:
- replace cat gasket and remove y pipe and weld in fabricated piece of stainless steel pipe. This fixed the exhaust leak.
- replace MAF sensor.
- brake light bulb and fuse
At 90K miles,timing belt,water pump,--Aisin--, Toyota super long life coolant, upper and lower radiator hoses, serpentine belt:$1024.00
At 95K miles: Denso spark plugs and throttle body cleaning: $53.00
TOTAL COST --16 years of ownership-- : $4480.00. ($280/year)
I have not included the cost of oil and filter, wipers, air and cabin filters, brake fluid, transmission fluid,differential fluid, power steering fluid, miscellaneous,...For obvious reasons, gasoline is not included.
As far as tires:
- OEM Toyos: 15,000 miles
- Mich. AS: 29,000 miles
- BFG: 37,000 miles
- Mich. Primacy MXM4: 21,000 miles and going.
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DaveGS4 (05-08-18)
05-09-18, 10:45 AM
#10
It's never a waste to spend money on repairs if you are going to keep your car. The argument that your car is not worth much vs. repair is a "false economic statement". I have a 99 GS400 with 150,000 miles. When I bring it in for service at Lexus, my adviser (who is a great guy and has been my adviser for the life of the car) usually starts saying "this repair might not be worth it based on the value of the car". I remind him that my car is really worth the cost of a new GS, because that's what would replace it. He smiles.
Cars are depreciating liabilities, not investments! You are never getting back any of the money you spend on your car. (gas brakes, tires, fluid changes, belts, bulbs, etc). My GS400 has been ridiculously reliable for 20 years and still rides as smooth as the day I bought it! So I need a repair every now and then, that's the way it is. Also, having known the car for 20 years, I can pick up the slightest nuance of an unusual noise, rattle, or squeak for immediate attention.
Do people feel better about spending $2000 on a repair if their car is worth $50,000??
To OP, keep your car, it's great!
Cars are depreciating liabilities, not investments! You are never getting back any of the money you spend on your car. (gas brakes, tires, fluid changes, belts, bulbs, etc). My GS400 has been ridiculously reliable for 20 years and still rides as smooth as the day I bought it! So I need a repair every now and then, that's the way it is. Also, having known the car for 20 years, I can pick up the slightest nuance of an unusual noise, rattle, or squeak for immediate attention.
Do people feel better about spending $2000 on a repair if their car is worth $50,000??
To OP, keep your car, it's great!
05-09-18, 02:48 PM
#11
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
implantgs4,
Thank you for your reply.
I laughed myself silly while reading your post. No greater truth has ever been said than, " Cars are depreciating liabilities, not investments! You are never getting back any of the money you spend on your car."
By investment, and I had not explained this--my bad--, I meant the joy it gives me; it's emotional, not financial. I did not pay the nearly $58,000 this car cost in 2002. It was my bonus to return to SC to work and offer my name and degree, mostly the degree, in a new business.
I 100% agree with you that good cars deserve the love I have given her with all the new parts. Albeit a 16-year-old car, she is driving like new. Like you, I know my car. Any new sound,if one ever should show up, I would like to believe that I would pick up on it immediately.
I believe that with things changing in the automotive industry there will come a time when it will not be so easy to find a new V8, unless you are willing to pay. I happen to like my car and do want to keep it for as long as possible, and as you stated, it is cheaper!
Thank you for your reply.
I laughed myself silly while reading your post. No greater truth has ever been said than, " Cars are depreciating liabilities, not investments! You are never getting back any of the money you spend on your car."
By investment, and I had not explained this--my bad--, I meant the joy it gives me; it's emotional, not financial. I did not pay the nearly $58,000 this car cost in 2002. It was my bonus to return to SC to work and offer my name and degree, mostly the degree, in a new business.
I 100% agree with you that good cars deserve the love I have given her with all the new parts. Albeit a 16-year-old car, she is driving like new. Like you, I know my car. Any new sound,if one ever should show up, I would like to believe that I would pick up on it immediately.
I believe that with things changing in the automotive industry there will come a time when it will not be so easy to find a new V8, unless you are willing to pay. I happen to like my car and do want to keep it for as long as possible, and as you stated, it is cheaper!
05-15-18, 06:37 AM
#12
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I had forgotten that I had changed this part until I saw the receipt this morning.
In June 2017: shift console dust slide cover, 35975-30240, $19.50.
TOTAL COST --16 years of ownership-- : $4499.50. ($281/year)
In June 2017: shift console dust slide cover, 35975-30240, $19.50.
TOTAL COST --16 years of ownership-- : $4499.50. ($281/year)
05-15-18, 07:15 PM
#13
I'm $18,000+ into my car (not counting cost of car)... and that doesn't even include maintenance, did I spend too much doing this, considering it is a 18 y.o. vehicle? LoL
My "must-do" maintenance alone is replacing all the same front components every 2 years (frequently done because I'm on bags and want to be sure nothing fails), so add that to my "grand total"
My "must-do" maintenance alone is replacing all the same front components every 2 years (frequently done because I'm on bags and want to be sure nothing fails), so add that to my "grand total"
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04-28-19 11:53 AM
