I don't give them a pass either if they ever cheat me, but so far two vehicles, I paid exactly to the penny what my screen showed before submitting the order, maybe a few dollars more on the monthly payment that was displayed. And not second of my time was wasted most importantly

 

If you are going to pay MSRP now it shouldn't take weeks of negotiating. I bought a Porsche and Hyundai in the last six months and both were brand new 2025 redesigned models (one being a special order) and I could have easily just paid MSRP for both and there wouldn't even be a minute of negotiating either. I did however want to save a thousands so I did spend time negotiating which was my choice.

As you know I also ordered a new Plaid and that was very easy and got $8,500 with $1,000 being a missed discount if I hadn't asked about it. It was very easy to do and took all of five minutes but it is also because there weren't a lot of options to choose from so that cuts down on a lot of time vs. a Porsche. The only dumb thing is they want you to get insurance on a car that I don't even own yet but there are ways around that as well. BTW, my car will be here next Friday!

 

I hope I can see what the calculation of my lease payment is and the discounts being applied before I pay, I will not be happy if they don't provide that to me. Right now on my order agreement it only shows the $1,000 loyalty discount but the "sales person" assured me that the $7,500 lease incentive will be applied which showed on her screen at the store when I ordered but does not show up in my order agreement. I trust them but now you have me a little worried.

 

This is not true at all anymore. Some very specific cars they will still try and do ADMs but that is not at all a "usual" practice anymore.

Depends on the car. Most manufacturers have a 2-3% holdback so even at invoice less all the available incentives they are making $1000-$1,500, and invoice is probably another $3,000. I would assume once you apply all the available incentives offered from the manufacturer I could probably get another $3,000 off a $50k car and the dealer is making $1,000-$1,500 in profit. If its the end of the month and its a slow moving car I can probably get into the holdback too.

Doesn't sound like a lot but when you're leasing discounts are important because they aren't residualized, the residual is based on the MSRP. So every dollar you negotiate off that MSRP comes right out of the lease payment. 36 month lease another $3,000 off is $83 a month.

 

It's just, my days of negotiating are over. I did it for over 30 years, don't want to do it anymore. Also let me stress, I know there are good dealerships out there. I don't think they are all bad. And if I ever wanted to buy something like a Porsche, I would than gladly put on my negotiating hat and go at it, even if it took months. But for an appliance car like a Model 3, Model Y, Camry, Corolla etc, I want the process to be as easy as possible, and I don't want to pay out my nose.

Look forward to you posting more about your new Plaid 👍

 

it may be location specific. The problem I saw (and full disclosure, in a prior life I was a Big 4 corporate tax partner) is the estimated taxes and fees on tesla.com make sense in CA if you purchase, but are hard to verify for a lease. CA is a state where lease payments are taxed as they are drawn down but there are upfront charges described as taxes that don't reconcile with the general sales tax determination model. It's also only the tesla.com order site, so the actual agreement may have different numbers, but the upfront taxes and fees engine looks like it might need some work.

 

Just like with any legacy mfg, we as the consumer dont have an idea how Tesla operates in terms of those terms.

Every seasoned EV buyer who overnight went upside down on their loans thanks to Tesla price cuts believed that the pricing was fixed, and Tesla as @AMIRZA786 would be bankrupted if they lowered prices.

In vehicle sales information asymmetry is a huge problem for consumers, but one of the best tools for sellers.

 

Yep, the huge price declines which destroyed resale values are another factor. Clearly there is plenty of room in the pricing.

Tesla sales down 71% in Australia:

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...rc6-imRe9UwRJQ

 

For most legacy and Tesla the only two markets that matter will be USA and China. Europe is already under Chinese mfgs control (astonishingly the pricing is way different as is content in these vehicles compared to their domestic Chinese equivalents).

 

We already pretty much have an idea of Tesla margins, as they are published and public knowledge, and I personally never saw Tesla price cuts as negative because I keep my cars between 8 to 10 years before buying another one. Price cuts don't bother me unless I bought a car on Monday, and Tuesday they slashed $10k, than that would obviously suck, but I view them as good for consumers. Since 1995 out of all the cars I've bought (8), I've only sold 3 of them, the rest I just pass to other family members

 

MD is not a tax friendly state for leasing, we pay full 6% tax on the purchase price of the car up front so it is less complex here but at least it makes it easy if you buy it out of lease since you don't get taxed twice. However, it also makes taking over a lease using swapalease for a short term lease not worth it based on the taxes you have to pay up front.

 

Another reason I come here is for your awesome rants.

They never disappoint. Haha 😂 🐢 🏃‍➡️

 

That means only one thing...I'm getting old

 

A Plaid going from $140k to $95K is clearly negative for anybody who bought one for $140k lol. Anybody who paid $140k is going to be upset when someone else can buy their same car brand new for forty five thousand dollars less.

I always trade out of my leases, which means at least I get some savings on the taxes but yes it does suck.

 

Join the club.
Grumpy old men.

I love good rants. Lol