Interesting, Tesla owners that use FSD are some separate demographic that have zero relevance to vehicle owners in general. Now I know why you are dismissive of Tesla's accident stats.
You've seen every situation with your own eyes, okay.

 

Tesla are permitted for Robotaxi, which is supervised but reportable. They can drive on any road in California at any time when supervised. Tesla doesn't appear to have had to file any incident reports yet.

 

Also of note - reports have to be filed regardless of fault. That 866 includes ones where the self driving played no part in the incident.

Here's one filed by Apple because a passing car clipped the mirror of their test car.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/apple_10232023-pdf/

 

I totally believe it did that for you, but I also totally believe it did what we saw it do in that video. At times it will work great and at times it will make mistakes. It probably just didn't recognize that particular shape object, maybe it was because it was so similar in color to the roadway...who knows,



Of course they are. Owners of any product are a demographic. Even within the population of Tesla owners those who choose to pay for FSD are yet another demographic. Owners of Lexus vehicles tend to be on average older....more educated...higher income than say a Honda owner etc. People who are consumers of any brand or product have a unique demographic slant...and those demographic slants have to be accounted for when looking at statistics comparing them with the population as a whole.

Its like saying "Lexus drivers are better drivers than drivers as a whole" because Lexus vehicles are involved in fewer accidents. You can't necessarily say that, it may be the demographic difference between an average Lexus driver and an average driver overall not the specific fact that they are a Lexus driver.

Quote:

ou've seen every situation with your own eyes, okay.

I never said that, but I have seen situations where a human driver would have done better, such as the situation reflected in that video. So I know FSD isn't better in every situation yes.

 

I've seen a bunch of vids where FSD avoided junk in the road. I'd explain again why we don't judge the whole by a single event or small sample set but...

 

I totally believe that you have, so have I. I'm just saying its not superior in every situation. Not judging the whole by the exception, but the exception impacts my perception of the whole of course. As I have said repeatedly I believe this tech is incredible...but we cannot yet prove statistically it is safer.

Given the choice between betting on myself and betting on technology, I'm going to bet on myself. Even better, myself aided by technology.

 

What technology is this? You've already said Tesla is disqualified because the demographic is an outlier or something like that and FSD stats are incomplete.

 

I personally think this argument is going nowhere. Same points being repeated. Can I respectfully ask that we move on? Please?

 

Sure. Don't take long term stock advice from this guy please.

 

Stating tesla isn't better in *every* situation is irrelevant because obviously there will be edge cases.

Formula one drivers will continue to be far better drivers than the public but that doesn't mean they don't crash lol

This whole debate here reminds of when no one thought computers could beat the world's best Go players (probably the hardest game there is) and yet, it happened just like IBM wiped the floor in jeopardy without access to the internet. Just like Gary Kasparov got crushed by ibm's computer. There milestones came and went and almost no one paid attention. Likewise it will very soon become obvious that self driving cars are vastly safer than human driving on average with several standard deviations from there. Self driving cars will still make questionable decisions but I'd still rather be in one than a taxi driver or grandma or teenage kids driving!

 

haha lol sure glad I kept my stock!! $434 today.

 

But should you sell now and wait for the next black swan sky is falling event? I'm too chicken instead I've been buying during the sky is falling period as much as I can. They say there is no way to predict the stock market, I guess but TSLA has seen consistent halving and doubling the last 5 years will it become 6? The absolute beating TSLA took after Elon bought Twitter was an incredible gift I should have bought on margin and leveraged my house.

IMO the stock won't see the current level or higher for good until real revenue shows up on the balance sheet for FSD.

 

FSD + human comparisons vs human make sense. However, valid comparisons would be limited to the supervisors accident rate with and without FSD, not the public at large without FSD.

The earlier video of an FSD equipped Tesla colliding with an object in the road during optimal environmental conditions is a perfect example of lack of supervisor intervention and results of same. That illustration of the limitations of FSD should raise an eyebrow on even the most dedicated Tesla FSD cheerleaders.

 

I said nothing of the sort.

 

And the issue is how it is presented. If I were driving that car I would have taken over and avoided that obstacle, but the point of what they were doing was trying to do what Elon said they could have done 7 years ago, let it drive itself completely across the country. At the core of this is Elon and Tesla’s positioning of FSD as being what the name says it is, Full Self Driving and it’s not that. Adding the word “supervised” doesn’t change the fact that the public really has been misled about what this technology can do. This is also why personally I would not choose to ride in a driverless Robotaxi yet.

Showing things stupid drivers do doesn’t hold water to me because I personally would not do those things. I cannot say however that my car wouldn’t do what that car in that video did and run over that item in the road. So, I still choose my own control and attention.