Tesla Business & News Thread Pt. 2
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
I've faced the situation with an obstacle in the road, a tiny cone that was tipped over in the lane, and FSD handled it perfectly without even leaving the lane. There is no way a human drives better than AI with 8 camera's watching every angle on the road all at once and being able to multitask and respond faster than any human brain can. I've been driving since 1984, and I'm 100 percent convinced FSD drives better than any human. Is it perfect? No, but it still drives better than any human on their best day
Instructor
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Alberta
You just proved my point. If you actually want stats go back to the link I posted about Waymo.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
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From: Maryland
I've faced the situation with an obstacle in the road, a tiny cone that was tipped over in the lane, and FSD handled it perfectly without even leaving the lane. There is no way a human drives better than AI with 8 camera's watching every angle on the road all at once and being able to multitask and respond faster than any human brain can. I've been driving since 1984, and I'm 100 percent convinced FSD drives better than any human. Is it perfect? No, but it still drives better than any human on their best day
I just do not agree that this technology has the ability to think critically to where it is indisputably better than a human driver in every situation, that video is proof that isn't the case. In many situations I agree it likely is better, and in time it may get to where it is better in most or even all situations...but I still am not going to let this drive me down the road without paying attention myself.
All I can say is had any of us been driving that Model Y and paying attention we would not have run over that item.
Last edited by SW17LS; Sep 22, 2025 at 04:19 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Again, Waymo's statistics are not representative of the situations you would be in as a private driver. It only operates in specific cities and overwhelmingly on surface streets and not on the highway. Unless you are comparing statistics in the exact same driving situations and locations it doesn't tell us that it universally is better or safer.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Alberta
Makes no sense to me. This video is clearly a failure of FSD.
But in this situation FSD didn't handle it perfectly at all, the video is clear as day. They saw the object in the road WELL in advance of not being able to avoid it and had they taken over from FSD they would have avoided it. Do you dispute that to be the case after watching that video?
I just do not agree that this technology has the ability to think critically to where it is indisputably better than a human driver in every situation, that video is proof that isn't the case. In many situations I agree it likely is better, and in time it may get to where it is better in most or even all situations...but I still am not going to let this drive me down the road without paying attention myself.
I'm really starting to see you cannot understand on any level what averages are.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
I have never said an example represents the whole, I have said that FSD is not yet superior to a human driver in every situation and thats clearly the case. The main benefit of this technology IMO is to improve the safety and convenience of the driver vs replacing the driver. Thats my interest in it, and why I like it as a tool in specific situations but wouldn't choose to let it drive me around all the time.
Again, please stop being so rude and telling me what I do and do not understand. If you had a strong argument you wouldn't have to keep trying to discredit me to prove your point.
Again, please stop being so rude and telling me what I do and do not understand. If you had a strong argument you wouldn't have to keep trying to discredit me to prove your point.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Alberta
The main benefit of this technology IMO is to improve the safety and convenience of the driver vs replacing the driver. Thats my interest in it, and why I like it as a tool in specific situations but wouldn't choose to let it drive me around all the time.
Again, please stop being so rude and telling me what I do and do not understand. If you had a strong argument you wouldn't have to keep trying to discredit me to prove your point.
Here's 30 minutes of humans being complete morons behind the wheel.
This proves absolutely nothing, sure it suggests people are bad at driving but doesn't offer proof overall. That's exactly why we have accidents per miles driven statistics. Autonomous vehicles are way better overall both Tesla and Waymo's stats prove this. And no autonomous vehicles don't drive on a closed course, or drive in traffic that people don't they all drive on the same roads and encounter the same variables. This is exactly how Tesla's FSD learns it watches video of people driving.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Good lord lol. Everything doesn't have to be a battle to the death.
Saying something over and over doesn't make it more true. No stats that are available prove this, this is your assumption but it is by no means a fact.
This is like saying I am a better than average driver because I have never had a fatal car accident, or even an at fault car accident (knock on wood). Well...I also have driven dramatically less than the total miles driven by the population so no...the data does not prove I am a better than average driver.
However, if every car was computer driven there would be a 90% reduction in traffic deaths, although you completely discount the stats.
Autonomous vehicles are way better overall both Tesla and Waymo's stats prove this
Saying something over and over doesn't make it more true. No stats that are available prove this, this is your assumption but it is by no means a fact.
This is like saying I am a better than average driver because I have never had a fatal car accident, or even an at fault car accident (knock on wood). Well...I also have driven dramatically less than the total miles driven by the population so no...the data does not prove I am a better than average driver.
Last edited by SW17LS; Sep 22, 2025 at 04:49 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Alberta
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
Likes: 4,114
From: Maryland
There are no stats for me to post, because as I have said those stats don't yet exist. I have said repeatedly that they likely are safer, but that there isn't enough data to prove that yet.
Until autonomous vehicles are out in the world into the hands of every type of driver in every type of location all over the whole country and the populations used in a fully independent study are truly representative of the public as a whole we won't be able to prove they are safer with data. Right now we have to rely on data provided by the creators and manufacturers of these products and we have to make assumptions based on that non representative data to draw a conclusion. You may be comfortable drawing that conclusion from those sources but I am not.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,076
Likes: 4,337
From: Alberta
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
Likes: 4,114
From: Maryland
How do I know that FSD is not as good as a human driver in every situation? Because I have seen it be not as good with my own eyes. Here's the video of it running over a debris in the roadway that a human driver would have easily avoided again:
They had 6 full seconds to react and FSD never reacted. So, in that situation a human driver would have been better.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,477
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From: FL
This is another issue I see with this tech, avoiding unforeseen things in the roadway:
https://youtu.be/PMppm1m6jio?si=KdOak4LhRThf6GDB
If I were driving I would have easily avoided that obstacle in the road, but the Tesla in FSD just ran right over it.
https://youtu.be/PMppm1m6jio?si=KdOak4LhRThf6GDB
If I were driving I would have easily avoided that obstacle in the road, but the Tesla in FSD just ran right over it.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,001
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From: San Diego, CA
Some possibly helpful info. In California the likes of Waymo etc have to report any and all incidents involving one of their cars to DMW within 10 days. Reports for the last six years are available online, prior to 2019 the reports are archived.
Per the DMV, there have been a total of 866 reports of incidents in California since 2014. That's likely a small fraction of total number of comparable incidents. It looks like Waymo and Zoox have the most reports in recent year.
But look at where and when Waymo is permitted for driverless testing, any time of the day or night, at all speeds, in all weather conditions - spoiled for size:
Basically the most populous parts the state, and remember they are permitted for any time of day in all conditions. There are going to be exponentially more than 866 incidents since 2014 in these metro areas.
List of all permit holders: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicl...ermit-holders/
List of all reported incidents, with links to reports: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicl...ision-reports/
Per the DMV, there have been a total of 866 reports of incidents in California since 2014. That's likely a small fraction of total number of comparable incidents. It looks like Waymo and Zoox have the most reports in recent year.
But look at where and when Waymo is permitted for driverless testing, any time of the day or night, at all speeds, in all weather conditions - spoiled for size:
Spoiler
Basically the most populous parts the state, and remember they are permitted for any time of day in all conditions. There are going to be exponentially more than 866 incidents since 2014 in these metro areas.
List of all permit holders: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicl...ermit-holders/
List of all reported incidents, with links to reports: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicl...ision-reports/