FTC Complaint Filed Against Toyota Over False Electrification Claims
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 490
Likes: 64
From: Georgia
(all caps are for emphasis only. Not yelling)
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 345
Likes: 25
From: PA
It's not a totally closed gas system, a hybrid still captures energy with regenerative braking.
7th Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
Likes: 3
From: Florida
I own a 2007 Lexus GS450h. This car has a high-output electric motor that works in conjunction with its V6 gas engine.
I would never call this hybrid an Electric Vehicle or Electrified. However the fabulous acceleration provided by the instant torque of its electric motor is what prompted me to buy a Tesla Model Y.
Toyota might be better served by admitting that they hate EV's but make great hybrids.
I would never call this hybrid an Electric Vehicle or Electrified. However the fabulous acceleration provided by the instant torque of its electric motor is what prompted me to buy a Tesla Model Y.
Toyota might be better served by admitting that they hate EV's but make great hybrids.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,306
Likes: 1,616
From: FL
I may not be an expert in EV's but I am an expert in electric. Lol
If the velocity of the car comes from the gas engine, this requires work.
So the capturing of the energy from regen braking is 100% gas powered. Lol.
Ps- trying hard to word that well. Trying to say, the car reached it's velocity by gas so the work done for regen is by gas.
Last edited by Margate330; Dec 14, 2023 at 09:28 AM.
From 1997 Toyota advertised the Prius having a battery that never needs to be charged.
So why now, 26 years later, it's an issue?
I know we have people who are ignorant in the world but are people really getting tricked a hybrid is all electric when they see it requires gasoline?
Have their ever been a report of a customer buying a hybrid and returning to the dealer a week later upset they had to buy gas? Lol
Are their people that really believe that based off of the Toyota ads, their vehicles never needs to be charged, never needs gas, you just buy it and drive it as much as you want without adding any type of "fuel"?
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,001
Likes: 1,630
From: San Diego, CA
The problem is Toyota using terms like "self charging hybrid" in attempts to mislead and make them sound more like a battery EV than a traditional hybrid.
No problem with the cars, Toyota hybrids are excellent, but their marketing is trying to pass them off as something they aren't and is being deliberately deceptive.
The term was banned in at least one case in Norway, for this reason, and Toyota is no longer allowed to use it there in marketing campaigns.
No problem with the cars, Toyota hybrids are excellent, but their marketing is trying to pass them off as something they aren't and is being deliberately deceptive.
The term was banned in at least one case in Norway, for this reason, and Toyota is no longer allowed to use it there in marketing campaigns.
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,795
Likes: 3,789
From: California
My stand in this is it's just marketing. If it sells more hybrids, than that's why they are doing it. Is the advertising a little misleading? Probably. I road in one of my brother in laws Highlander Hybrid, and it felt nothing like an EV, except maybe when we were stopped at traffic light and when we took off and it made the humming EV sound, but once the engine kicks in, there is no illusion that's it's an EV.
To me it doesn't really matter. I think most people don't really care, they are buying a hybrid to save gas, or to make a compromise between BEV and ICE. For me it's a none issue
To me it doesn't really matter. I think most people don't really care, they are buying a hybrid to save gas, or to make a compromise between BEV and ICE. For me it's a none issue
The problem is Toyota using terms like "self charging hybrid" in attempts to mislead and make them sound more like a battery EV than a traditional hybrid.
No problem with the cars, Toyota hybrids are excellent, but their marketing is trying to pass them off as something they aren't and is being deliberately deceptive.
The term was banned in at least one case in Norway, for this reason, and Toyota is no longer allowed to use it there in marketing campaigns.
No problem with the cars, Toyota hybrids are excellent, but their marketing is trying to pass them off as something they aren't and is being deliberately deceptive.
The term was banned in at least one case in Norway, for this reason, and Toyota is no longer allowed to use it there in marketing campaigns.
My stand in this is it's just marketing. If it sells more hybrids, than that's why they are doing it. Is the advertising a little misleading? Probably. I road in one of my brother in laws Highlander Hybrid, and it felt nothing like an EV, except maybe when we were stopped at traffic light and when we took off and it made the humming EV sound, but once the engine kicks in, there is no illusion that's it's an EV.
To me it doesn't really matter. I think most people don't really care, they are buying a hybrid to save gas, or to make a compromise between BEV and ICE. For me it's a none issue
To me it doesn't really matter. I think most people don't really care, they are buying a hybrid to save gas, or to make a compromise between BEV and ICE. For me it's a none issue
If it's actually misleading people to do the above then by all means ban the ad and charge Toyota whatever penalty.
Maybe consumers going to a dealership believing it's all electric is misleading enough (bait and switch)? I just thought there need to be proof to show people are getting mislead into a purchased based off of a deceptive ad but I may be wrong....as I say no idea how the law works lol.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,795
Likes: 3,789
From: California
No idea how the law works, I just find it hard to believe people believe based on the ads it's all electric, requires no gas nor charging and follow through with the purchase based on that premise.
If it's actually misleading people to do the above then by all means ban the ad and charge Toyota whatever penalty.
Maybe consumers going to a dealership believing it's all electric is misleading enough (bait and switch)? I just thought there need to be proof to show people are getting mislead into a purchased based off of a deceptive ad but I may be wrong....as I say no idea how the law works lol.
If it's actually misleading people to do the above then by all means ban the ad and charge Toyota whatever penalty.
Maybe consumers going to a dealership believing it's all electric is misleading enough (bait and switch)? I just thought there need to be proof to show people are getting mislead into a purchased based off of a deceptive ad but I may be wrong....as I say no idea how the law works lol.
"just marketing" that's deceptive and wrongly manipulative doesn't make it ok.
To me it doesn't really matter. I think most people don't really care, they are buying a hybrid to save gas, or to make a compromise between BEV and ICE. For me it's a none issue
fast food looks great in commercials too, but we all know it's crap.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 345
Likes: 25
From: PA
This is true., with a twist.
I may not be an expert in EV's but I am an expert in electric. Lol
If the velocity of the car comes from the gas engine, this requires work.
So the capturing of the energy from regen braking is 100% gas powered. Lol.
Ps- trying hard to word that well. Trying to say, the car reached it's velocity by gas so the work done for regen is by gas.
I may not be an expert in EV's but I am an expert in electric. Lol
If the velocity of the car comes from the gas engine, this requires work.
So the capturing of the energy from regen braking is 100% gas powered. Lol.
Ps- trying hard to word that well. Trying to say, the car reached it's velocity by gas so the work done for regen is by gas.
), but at some point you'll want to slow down, and recapturing to a battery instead of 100% using the brakes will let you double dip on some of your energy. For a mild hybrid that can't plug in this is basically the only way it can increase your mileage.
CL Community Team
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,566
Likes: 231
From: San Francisco, CA
Yeah I see no problem with this.
Toyota put the term hybrid in all their ads in big letters, so it's not trying to hide the fact that it's a hybrid and not an EV. If the average consumer cannot discern hybrid versus fully electric vehicle, then that's really the public's problem. I agree with the statement that hybrids are partially electrified. It has a battery pack, albeit small, but it does power the drive wheels. In fact, I don't think the battery pack even powers the accessories and leaves that totally to the 12V. Since they have a PHEV, it is still correct to say it is self charging. All plug in vehicle have a drive mode that will actively use the gas engine to charge up the battery. It is using gas to self charge the battery pack. The range statement also seems fine. Legacy and gas automakers are always stating some kind of range, and they never have to put "gas range". saying the Camry has a range of 600+ miles seems fair to me. Again I see no problems with this, except for maybe the net 0/carbon 0 claims which im 100% sure Toyota is not carbon neutral from end to end.
Toyota put the term hybrid in all their ads in big letters, so it's not trying to hide the fact that it's a hybrid and not an EV. If the average consumer cannot discern hybrid versus fully electric vehicle, then that's really the public's problem. I agree with the statement that hybrids are partially electrified. It has a battery pack, albeit small, but it does power the drive wheels. In fact, I don't think the battery pack even powers the accessories and leaves that totally to the 12V. Since they have a PHEV, it is still correct to say it is self charging. All plug in vehicle have a drive mode that will actively use the gas engine to charge up the battery. It is using gas to self charge the battery pack. The range statement also seems fine. Legacy and gas automakers are always stating some kind of range, and they never have to put "gas range". saying the Camry has a range of 600+ miles seems fair to me. Again I see no problems with this, except for maybe the net 0/carbon 0 claims which im 100% sure Toyota is not carbon neutral from end to end.