Tesla Business and News Thread
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
do you believe half the claims made for products that of course have the 'fine print' saying they don't guarantee anything?
"guaranteed hair loss reversal" lol or "vegetable supplements" with all kinds of claims and testimonials of improved health. total b.s.
as i've stated many times, tesla should NOT have called it 'full self driving" (FSD) but if they had not had any disclaimers, they'd be in serious hot water, but since they do, they likely won't suffer from lawsuits, especially since people who bought it knew it wasn't 'finished'. the bigger problem probably is musk's claims that fsd would let people wh0re out their cars as part of a robotaxi fleet to make money. THAT hasn't happened, and likely won't for many years, if ever.
"guaranteed hair loss reversal" lol or "vegetable supplements" with all kinds of claims and testimonials of improved health. total b.s.
as i've stated many times, tesla should NOT have called it 'full self driving" (FSD) but if they had not had any disclaimers, they'd be in serious hot water, but since they do, they likely won't suffer from lawsuits, especially since people who bought it knew it wasn't 'finished'. the bigger problem probably is musk's claims that fsd would let people wh0re out their cars as part of a robotaxi fleet to make money. THAT hasn't happened, and likely won't for many years, if ever.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Guys, there is just no argument here. If the product is called “full self driving” it’s completely reasonable to expect the car can fully self drive. “People shouldn’t have trusted the name of the product was accurate” is an incredibly weak defense.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
For someone who bought FSD back in 2017 and he believed through statements that it would be ready in a "reasonably short period", those people have an argument and should be pissed. But for someone who orders it today, you can read clearly that's it not certified yet to make your vehicle autonomous. And I agree, it should not be called "Full Self Driving"
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
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From: San Diego, CA
Some of you are forgetting that FSD has been offered for years, that there wasn't always caveat emptor disclaimer language (which is likely null and void if there is indeed a valid fraud argument here) and that some owners that bought FSD back in the day likely will never get it. "All cars currently sold" is not all cars ever sold.
Tesla is exposed here.
Tesla is exposed here.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
Some of you are forgetting that FSD has been offered for years, that there wasn't always caveat emptor disclaimer language (which is likely null and void if there is indeed a valid fraud argument here) and that some owners that bought FSD back in the day likely will never get it. "All cars currently sold" is not all cars ever sold.
Tesla is exposed here.
Tesla is exposed here.
As far as I know, all Tesla's currently sold are FSD capable. Cyber Truck doesn't have FSD enabled yet, but will have capabilities enabled when ready.
Talking to someone who follows Tesla much more closely than me, he says FSD and Robotics are more important to Elon than even raw vehicle sales. If that's true, every single Tesla sold will have the capabilities
Now are you asking will it fully work one day? I don't have the answer to that question. Probably if it doesn't fully work, then you will see lawsuits
EDIT:
I re-read your question, and I am assuming you mean Tesla's going back to 2014? I don't know, but if not and they bought FSD, then I can see lawsuits in the horizon
Talking to someone who follows Tesla much more closely than me, he says FSD and Robotics are more important to Elon than even raw vehicle sales. If that's true, every single Tesla sold will have the capabilities
Now are you asking will it fully work one day? I don't have the answer to that question. Probably if it doesn't fully work, then you will see lawsuits
EDIT:
I re-read your question, and I am assuming you mean Tesla's going back to 2014? I don't know, but if not and they bought FSD, then I can see lawsuits in the horizon
The answer will be much clearer in a couple months. I think the robo taxi debut in August will have additional cameras that current Teslas don't have which is necessary for the completed FSD. Just a guess though. If so it could be a massive lawsuit.
So it's fine when Tesla does this type of advertising because the customer should read and realize it's not ready yet but when Toyota does it, you find it to be a huge issue. Come on you must see the hypocrisy lol.
Toyota should start advertising their PHEVs as Full Electric Vehicles then put a disclaimer it's fully electric for 40 miles then uses gas. I can just imagine the uproar that would get here lol.
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For someone who bought FSD back in 2017 and he believed through statements that it would be ready in a "reasonably short period", those people have an argument and should be pissed. But for someone who orders it today, you can read clearly that's it not certified yet to make your vehicle autonomous. And I agree, it should not be called "Full Self Driving"
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant from when Musk said all cars being sold will be FSD capable (not sure if that's 2014 or 2016), when / if they do get FSD complete, do you think all Teslas sold since that statement will be able to run the completed FSD?
The answer will be much clearer in a couple months. I think the robo taxi debut in August will have additional cameras that current Teslas don't have which is necessary for the completed FSD. Just a guess though. If so it could be a massive lawsuit.
The answer will be much clearer in a couple months. I think the robo taxi debut in August will have additional cameras that current Teslas don't have which is necessary for the completed FSD. Just a guess though. If so it could be a massive lawsuit.
Honestly, I don't think most people really care about FSD. I'm around a lot of Tesla owners, and most I know didn't pay for it. Could be wrong, but that's what I think
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
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From: California
Find it strange you want the customer to read but when Toyota advertise their hybrids / PHEVS as electrified vehicles you think Toyota is deceiving customers with false advertising. When you go on toyota website to build it states gas/electric.
So it's fine when Tesla does this type of advertising because the customer should read and realize it's not ready yet but when Toyota does it, you find it to be a huge issue. Come on you must see the hypocrisy lol.
Toyota should start advertising their PHEVs as Full Electric Vehicles then put a disclaimer it's fully electric for 40 miles then uses gas. I can just imagine the uproar that would get here lol.
So it's fine when Tesla does this type of advertising because the customer should read and realize it's not ready yet but when Toyota does it, you find it to be a huge issue. Come on you must see the hypocrisy lol.
Toyota should start advertising their PHEVs as Full Electric Vehicles then put a disclaimer it's fully electric for 40 miles then uses gas. I can just imagine the uproar that would get here lol.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
Imo it's not just someone who bought FSD. I believe many people bought a Tesla without FSD, but believing their Tesla will be FSD capable once it's complete then they can just purchase FSD after. Remember Musk said something along the lines of Teslas will be appreciating assets because of FSD. I'm sure some got tricked into believing these statements.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,074
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From: San Diego, CA
Tesla's 2023 impact report is out.
Some snippets pertinent to prior FUD we've seen here on the forum:
- Data is showing that at 200,000 miles you can expect only a 15% reduction in capacity in a 3/Y, and only 12% in an S/X.
- In 2023 alone, Tesla supported the recovery of enough battery materials to produce 43,000 rear drive Model Y vehicles
- Teslas (and by extension, EVs in general) catch fire at a rate eight times lower than the US average.
- Tesla solar generated more than three times the electricity consumed by every Tesla facility, including all factories.
- After 3 years, a Tesla (and broadly, other EVs) has emitted less entire lifecycle CO2 than a comparable ICE vehicle, including manufacturing
Most of the key highlights are in the summary, more detail and data are in the full report.
https://www.tesla.com/impact
Some snippets pertinent to prior FUD we've seen here on the forum:
- Data is showing that at 200,000 miles you can expect only a 15% reduction in capacity in a 3/Y, and only 12% in an S/X.
- In 2023 alone, Tesla supported the recovery of enough battery materials to produce 43,000 rear drive Model Y vehicles
- Teslas (and by extension, EVs in general) catch fire at a rate eight times lower than the US average.
- Tesla solar generated more than three times the electricity consumed by every Tesla facility, including all factories.
- After 3 years, a Tesla (and broadly, other EVs) has emitted less entire lifecycle CO2 than a comparable ICE vehicle, including manufacturing
Most of the key highlights are in the summary, more detail and data are in the full report.
https://www.tesla.com/impact
Last edited by swajames; May 26, 2024 at 09:12 AM.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1,723
From: San Diego, CA
Another interesting snippet is that Tesla's own data shows that it did not have a Supercharger uptime problem, basically confirming that Musk's supercharger "pivot" was indeed horse****. The "we're spending $500m" he talked about would actually see a 77% decline in growth, and the focus on "uptime" is a complete red herring.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: North Carolina
Most EVs in the US market are much newer compared to the average US ICE vehicle. So that average US fire stat includes all the crappy old cars and trucks with less safety design and features, plus poor maintenance as they age. Googling the average ICE vehicle looks like 12.6 years old, EV average age is 3.5.
If they want to legitimately make this claim, they need to be comparing to ICE vehicles with an average age of 3.5 years.
I looked at the report and didn’t see the methodology for this fire stat spelled out as being apples to apples, they should leave out all the old Ford Pintos and such from the comparison.