Lexus or any other dealer - that's always their first answer. "Mr Service Advisor - my car won't start" " Working as designed" Very frustrating but they're all the same.

 

It was working as it was designed for the first 2 years. Now it's not. The problem is that this particular dealer's staff doesn't understand the design so they are unable to fix it.

 

I thought pano roofs were less likely to be leakers but bottom line, when you cut a hole in the roof of a car, there's a chance it will eventually leak. There's a reason most extended warranties specifically EXCLUDE water leaks.

 

That is some b******* I will call corporate your roof should not be leaking I don't have the panoramic roof but I do tgo through an automatic car wash in my roof does not leak with high pressure water or maybe over time they just wear on the seals I should probably stop using them

 

There's no visible damage or degradation of the seal at all. Your seal is at a much higher risk of drying out from age than a wash damaging it. A good friend owns a number of car washes and he's never heard of that happening either. Then again, not all washes are created equal, and neither are the quality/composition of the chemicals used). I use a single wash location, of known quality, and they do an awesome job; I wouldn't take my car through just anywhere. It's a manned location and they do not let excessively dirty vehicles through (ie. muddy trucks), plus they keep the equipment/brushes clean and well maintained and use reasonable chems. They have a heated dry which works fantastic, and helps heal the PPF film. It's more expensive than most autowashes but I feel like it's worth it. And I can't stand a salty car in the winter. They salt brine the highways now in Ohio and it coats everything.

Now my Supra is a different story, it only gets handwashed

My personal opinion is that my car's problem is more complex, but I'm making the dealer and Lexus figure it out. Examining manufacturing defects and the processes that make them was my profession for years before breaking into my current gig. And I'm not inclined to work for free when they're just going to actively fight doing anything. At least trying the seal was a first step before they backed off.

 

I had a new '77 403 Oldsmobile with "Hurst Hatch" T-Tops. Within a year, they were leaking from multiple spots. GM recalled the car and installed a completely new track, moulding and gaskets, and two newly redesigned glass panels. It had to cost them thousands to do this but it did the trick. A month or two later, a Hurst representative called to see if the recall was successful. He recommended using a lubricant periodically on the rubber gaskets, and for the rest of the time I owned it, the tops never leaked.

I've ordered several cars without a sunroof, since they're not the most practical especially in NYC and now in Florida. Other car purchases didn't even give me the option of NOT having the feature.

 

Love that car. Mine was a 77 Grand Prix. 400 cu in. No pictures though.

 

I never use the sun roof. I even asked the sales agent if I could order one without a sunroof. Now my '19 has a pano roof that's been opened once - when I got the car in 2018... Sad fact is that the manufacturers force you to take a sun roof either standard or pano. Give me A/C anytime over who knows what coming into the car... Had a friend hit a tree trying to wiggle away from a wasp that came into the car. He lived, wasp did not...

 

Here's an update on where things stand now. I was on was on the fence about picking my car up versus telling them to keep it until they figure out how to fix it. Then I figured I better go get it, lest I get stuck with a crazy bill for not taking back the loaner because now this is probably going to be long and drawn out. While there, suffice it to say that I adamantly voiced my displeasure with how they were handling the situation, to the service manager and then to the salesman we'd worked with on our last two Lexuses. And again in writing via email to the same group, plus the new car sales manager. The salesman promised to take it to the GM of the dealership (who was on vacation last week), and I was able to get the service manager to escalate it to the district rep from Lexus from the area. So we'll see what happens next. Whether it's the seal or not, I'd be thrilled if they at least acknowledge the issue and actually take steps to remedy it. In reality that's probably a pipe dream. I fully expect to once again hear, possibly in a new and creative way, that the water dripping on my head through the closed sunroof of my new-enough-to-still-be-under-warranty Lexus isn't a defect. Perhaps that it's an unpublished feature of the climate concierge system, raising the in-cabin humidity during these dry winter months for optimum comfort! I can't wait to hear what they come up with.


I basically never open mine either, and I would have preferred the extra head room of no sunroof at all. But like you said, that's not an option and I liked the panoramic better than the standard (leaks notwithstanding). I do enjoy all the light it lets in with the shade rolled back, and how open it makes the cabin feel even with the low roof line. My car's white, and the all-black look of the roof matches great with the other gloss black accents on the car.

 

Mine has never been opened either in the two+ years I've owned the ES. But I do like the daylight that comes through and would hate to not have that. Pano even better but not an option on the FSport.

 

Have them check the sunroof drains. If they're clogged, could just simply be a backlog of water that's overwhelming the stock drainage system. No glass on any car's roof actually seals against water, it just diverts 98% of it. Some seeps in and that's what the drainage system is for--water is supposed to drip past any glass. So Lexus could be right in that there's no fault with the seals and roof mechanism but it could just be that the drains are clogged.

I do know even brand new, my BMWs would leak water past the seals if you hit it at the right angle with pressurized water. That's cause the seals are not designed to take on direct water spray, but more so natural water from rain. There's a lot of factors here but first confirm the sunroof drains were checked and confirmed to be free flowing.

 

Again, it's NOT a situation where a high pressure sprayer is involved....A good suggestion on the drains though, we've verified that early on. Not a drainage issue. The water seeps past the leading edge of the glass and the stamping that's underneath it. What you're seeing in the pictures I posted is the water dripping off the back (interior side) of that support stamping, into the cabin. While drain blockages are a common water problem, it's not the cause of my car's issue.

On the first visit, the technician adjusted the fit of the glass to seal...The main seal I assume. This despite the fact that they "couldn't duplicate" the problem. Logically, something was off with the fit or he wouldn't have touched it at all. Fun side note: I learned these pano roofs are actually triple sealed. I should start referring to my leak as a triple bypass so I can at least have a chuckle when it rains inside.

Anyway, after he made the adjustment the leak worsened, now letting water in in two places. I duplicated the problem, when back a week later and spent probably close to an hour with the tech and service advisor examining. I was fine with all of that, and at that point in time everybody agreed that water was getting where it was not supposed to. It was unclear to the service guys how exactly it was happening, but they wanted to start by replacing the main seal...again pointing to the fit of the panel-to-seal.

So that's how the "replace the seal" started. My stance has only been that my 2 year old $54K car should not drip water on my head and that the fix needs to be covered under warranty. What's got me upset is the dealership's sudden 180, going from finally having agreed that it was a problem and implementing a potential fix to no nevermind come get your car.

 

^Your post is unclear them. Your only reference to a possible source of water intrusion is a car wash. No car wash that I know of lets water gravity drip onto your car, so for all intents and purposes it's pressurized water. Unless you are saying the water intrusion you're getting is through naturally occurring rainfall---is this what you're saying? Again your reference to a car wash (in your first post) would leave me to believe that the water that's coming into your car is pressurized.

 

I said it's not HIGH pressure, I didn't indicate zero pressure. No need to be a smart***. Think more than a rain drop, but less than a pressure washer.

A lot of un-manned, touchless washes use HIGH PRESSURE (>1,000psi) during multiple rinses. A friend installed one of these at two locations he owns and it literally pushes/shakes his SUV during the rinse because the pressure is so high. It is basically a pressure washer. I am drawing the distinction that this is NOT the type of wash I use. The wash I use is a (relatively) gentle, soft touch wash and has two rinses: the first I would say is more or less equivalent to a garden hose with a sprayer, the second spot free rinse falls like a rain shower head. Neither would be expected to cause water to enter the cabin, nor have they for the past 2 years. High pressures are not needed in these style car wash systems.

We haven't had temperatures above freezing in February, so no rain recently; actually no rain at all since the leak started so I can't say what natural rain fall would do. I do suspect temperature is a factor (affecting the panel to seal fit), considering when the leak first appeared, and if that hypothesis were true then temperatures warm enough for rain might also be warm enough to hold an adequate seal.

 

I would consider artificially generated pressure to be relatively high pressure. Any leak as a result of machine or device that applies water is likely the cause of the intrusion rather than any inherent design or fault with the seals.

Also I wasn't being a smart___, just factual. I'm new to these parts because I just got an ES and am trying to help you with your car (huge compliment to you that i'm even in this thread) so if you know anything about me, you're in for a shock for when i actually am being a smart___. No need to be defensive just cause I respond with info you don't like. I just call it like it is.