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-   -   Lexus installed GPS is terrible (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-7th-gen-2019-2025/977248-lexus-installed-gps-is-terrible.html)

DavidZ Dec 4, 2021 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by 703 (Post 11175927)
Apple and Google Nav is inferior to HERE technologies for Nav. HERE is used by likes of Audi, BMW and emergency services and has mapping data for over 200 counties.

It was the first to come up with Vector title for different zoom levels while google was still using bitmaps for different zooms. It was first to have offline maps for entire countries in small vector based files with 3D buildings while Google still had to stream in map data.

It doesn't matter who was first. What matters is who's the best today.

Apple Maps, Google Maps and Waze are all excellent in terms of performance, IMO. The Lexus Nav is not in the same league for a lot of reasons. I have no idea how good HERE is. Never heard of it before. I doubt it's significantly better than Apple Maps, Google Maps and Waze.


ionian Dec 4, 2021 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by 703 (Post 11175927)
Apple and Google Nav is inferior to HERE technologies for Nav. HERE is used by likes of Audi, BMW and emergency services and has mapping data for over 200 counties.

Do you have link to an article that back up this claim? I would agree with you 7-10 years ago but Google is king of the hills nowadays. Google maps has over 1B active users per month.

703 Dec 5, 2021 01:52 AM


Originally Posted by ionian (Post 11176210)
Do you have link to an article that back up this claim? I would agree with you 7-10 years ago but Google is king of the hills nowadays. Google maps has over 1B active users per month.

We're talking about automotive grade navigation as per my post above, not debating about google maps and its popularity (which btw is not that popular in Europe and Asia). HERE is a platform for enterprises for the likes of Amazon, Yahoo, Baidu, Facebook, Bing, Intel etc. For automotive BMW, VW Group, Daimler, Ford etc use them. In fact, over 50 OEM car and car navigation brands uses technologies from HERE.

It terms of mapping accuracy for mission critical applications, it is light years ahead of Google. It has mapping data accurate to 10cm.






703 Dec 5, 2021 02:01 AM


Originally Posted by DavidZ (Post 11176130)
It doesn't matter who was first. What matters is who's the best today.

I have no idea how good HERE is. Never heard of it before.

HERE has its root back in 1985 as Navteq, then Smart2Go, then Nokia Maps, then Ovi Maps, then HERE. You have probably heard of Garmin before? It licenses their maps and navigation tech since day 1 (1985). Denso (supplies mapping to Toyota and Lexus) license some of their map data from HERE as well, but they don't do a particularly good job of implementing the UI and navigation system!





DavidZ Dec 5, 2021 05:18 AM


Originally Posted by 703 (Post 11176346)
We're talking about automotive grade navigation as per my post above, not debating about google maps and its popularity (which btw is not that popular in Europe and Asia). HERE is a platform for enterprises for the likes of Amazon, Yahoo, Baidu, Facebook, Bing, Intel etc. For automotive BMW, VW Group, Daimler, Ford etc use them. In fact, over 50 OEM car and car navigation brands uses technologies from HERE.

It terms of mapping accuracy for mission critical applications, it is light years ahead of Google. It has mapping data accurate to 10cm.

A quick Google search indicates that Google Maps easily beats out BMW's GPS due to the quality and accuracy of traffic info, rerouting quickness, and map completeness. Those are the factors that matter, not whether it's accurate to 100 cm or 10 cm.

ionian Dec 5, 2021 06:06 AM

Nokia heavily marketed it to European automakers and it became the dominated player in that space. They have a couple of decades head start before Google / Apple got into that field. A few years back HERE was looking for a buyer and a bunch of German automakers band together to purchase it . They have a reason to keep using it over Google Maps, etc to keep their competition at bay. I am sure they are fighting hard to keep their turfs from the likes of Google and Apple.

Nowadays navigation via mobile devices are extremely popular for a variety of reasons.

mikemu30 Dec 5, 2021 09:25 AM

No mention of Magellan here😋😋

toyotaman7 Dec 5, 2021 02:12 PM

I think there is a bit of confusion here.

Navigation performance is not the same as map data. HERE is a map data provider. Then someone else writes the program to use the map data and provide the point to point navigation (route).

I think Apple uses TomTom map data, view uses its own software to create the routes.

Google uses its own data and software and is always receiving live traffic data from anyone that has google maps installed on their phones.

ionian Dec 5, 2021 03:17 PM


Originally Posted by toyotaman7 (Post 11176618)
I think Apple uses TomTom map data, view uses its own software to create the routes.

That is true up until last year. Apple has stop licensing from TomTom.

703 Dec 5, 2021 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by toyotaman7 (Post 11176618)
I think there is a bit of confusion here.

Navigation performance is not the same as map data. HERE is a map data provider. Then someone else writes the program to use the map data and provide the point to point navigation (route).

.



HERE can provide the navigation platform as well, not just maps data for various industries. You can even download the app on your phone for the consumer mobile slice of that technology.

Again, if you look back to the roots, it had navigation even before Google maps was a product. I remember downloading Navteq for offline navigation on a Nokia non smart phone.


703 Dec 5, 2021 08:03 PM


Originally Posted by DavidZ (Post 11176366)
A quick Google search indicates that Google Maps easily beats out BMW's GPS due to the quality and accuracy of traffic info, rerouting quickness, and map completeness. Those are the factors that matter, not whether it's accurate to 100 cm or 10 cm.

That’s because BMW wrote their own navigation software and put in slow processing power for their nav units. Little to do with HERE technologies. But yes they both have coverage weaknesses and depends on the city and region on which map data is best. But I have used HERE navigation logic and it’s very good, good level customisation but they have started to dumb it down for the end user.


grp52 Dec 5, 2021 11:48 PM


Originally Posted by ionian (Post 11176664)
That is true up until last year. Apple has stop licensing from TomTom.

On Apple's Maps Acknowledgements amongst a long list of data sources TomTom is still listed as a data source with a copyright year range including 2021.

ionian Dec 6, 2021 07:30 AM

Apple already moved on from TomTom:

"Since its Maps app launched in 2012, Apple has relied on licensed data from navigation technology companies, including TomTom, to fill in the gaps where it hadn't yet captured its own data. With this latest update, Apple is no longer licensing TomTom data for the US, the company confirmed. Apple Maps now relies on the company's own underlying framework for domestic navigation."

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-maps-redesign/

grp52 Dec 6, 2021 10:27 PM


Originally Posted by ionian (Post 11177004)
Apple already moved on from TomTom:

"Since its Maps app launched in 2012, Apple has relied on licensed data from navigation technology companies, including TomTom, to fill in the gaps where it hadn't yet captured its own data. With this latest update, Apple is no longer licensing TomTom data for the US, the company confirmed. Apple Maps now relies on the company's own underlying framework for domestic navigation."

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-maps-redesign/

Only "...for the US,,," and later on in your reference article:


Tapping on the “info” icon on the page led to a Maps Settings menu that still showed TomTom, OpenStreetMap, and the Weather Channel as data sources, because those services still provide data in certain markets.

E46CT Dec 7, 2021 10:49 AM

I remember the old days when the first cars with GPS, the 98 7 Series, 99 Acura TL/RL (could've been a year or two earlier but around there), the in-car navigation was DVD-based and depended on using an up to date physical DVD (the updates were few and far between) I can't imagine how bad it must've been to use. but still, everyone was wowed by it. it was exotic. it was sought after! Also it was a $2,000 option IIRC.


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