2013 to a 2020
 

My wife is approaching 100K on her 2013 ES and is ready to trade up to a 2020.

The problem with the 2013 has always been comfort. When we first drove it we thought it was pretty good, but then after a few months of owning it, we realized it wasn't all that great after all... noise levels were higher than we expected and the ride has always been a bit on the harsh side. Is the 2020 significantly improved on the ride quality, comfort, quietness from 7 years ago? I would expect at least some improvement, but hoping for significant improvement.

I asked this before going to test drive, because we are 2.5 hours from the dealer that has the color she is interested in, and she wants to see a couple of the colors in person.

Another issue we have is none of the dealers within 2-3 hours of us have the ML audio system, which we would really like to have, so we may end up on a long road trip to a dealer that has what we want, providing we can get a respectable deal worked out, which I also know is a bit more difficult to do with low inventory in many places.

Regards,
Sonnie

I also owned a 2013 Luxury model and traded up to a Ultra Lux 2019. I don't believe that there are substantial differences between the '19 and the '20 models. I found the comfort level in the '13 to be very satisfactory and comparing it to my 2019, about the same. I don't think that you will find "significant" changes to comfort. There are differences in the suspension of the UL model vs. the lux, but allowing for these differences I would have to say that the ride, for me, is virtually the same. There have been complaints by members of the forum about wind noise in their 2019 and 2020 Lexus Executive Sedans. I didn't experience this in the '13... I believe that some of the complaints regarding ride harshness had to do with the tires and incorrect inflation. As far as the ML audio, IMO it's not worth the money when compared with the base system. Many will disagree with this but only you can decide if it's worth it. Given the chance to order it or not, I wouldn't...

What this all boils down to for you is a long ride to a dealer who has the deluxe audio system and the color you desire. The ride, noise, and everything else in the car is yours to decide if it meets your criteria when you take it for a 15 minute test drive. GOOD LUCK and I hope you find what you're looking for. :bigthumbu

We had a 2010 and a 2016 ES350 and last Nov we switched to a 2019 ES FSport.
The '19 is head and shoulders above both of the predecessors! A totally different animal and a joy to drive.

I never owned a 16 ES but did drive one a bit and my 19 ES FSport is quite different I agree.

Its an evolutionary difference, its not light years better but it is quieter and better riding. If you want a car thats truly on another level, you have to move up into a higher category.

The ML audio is purely a function of what you're listening to. If you listen to satellite radio and MP3s then you wont notice much difference. if you listen ti lossless audio and CDs, then the difference is huge,

The 2020 is night and day compared to the 2018 ES. The seat positioning is so much better, quieter ride and better handling. The auto side mirrors are nice as well as the digital speedometer.

We just replaced our 2014 ES350 Luxury with a 2020 ES350 UL fully loaded. The '14 was fine but the '20 is like another car altogether. It is extremely quiet and handles far better. Steering is a little heavier, but better - feels more like a sports car (I owned a Vette). I always keep my car tires at 38 psi but the ride is certainly not harsh. Corners flat, unlike our '14. Comfort probably the same or a little better than the '14. An extraordinary luxury (and performance) car for the money. After 20 years buying Lexus vehicles in Silver Lining Metallic, got the new one in Atomic Silver - a terrific color - wish we did it years earlier.

Of course, one of the biggest improvements since the 2013 is all of the new safety equipment you get with the latest model.

Noise is quite personal. This is quite exhaustive but I do recommend the following:

Find an app for your phone that can sense and display decibels. Take this with you on your test drive, specifically and record the decibels while on the test drive loop. Please please request that the test drive be more then just side streets and level paved roads as you want to vary the surfaces. When your done, compare that same loop in your existing ES and you can draw a data driven conclusion.

I know test drives tend to be on a mid spec vehicle, so request a demo (both types of audio) in the inventory lot at the very least, with your favorite source of audio (BT/carplay/aa/tidal) and see if your current source utilizes the ML audio system to its potential.

The 2020 should be a definite improvement, I liked it (value LS) but I`m not you, so test drives a must.

I agree with those who think the '19-20 is much quieter, much more comfortable to sit in and soaks up the rode imperfections much better as compared to the 2013-2015 ES's. Plus handling on curvy roads and straight line stability is substantially better as well. I think this driving review is spot on:

I would say it is different enough that is worth your time to check out the 2019/2020 ES. It does drive and ride differently than your 2013. The ride will be a touch "firmer" and that takes out a lot of the loosey-goosey feeling and almost all of the excessive vertical motion that previous generations were prone to. That's not to say it's harsh in any way, it eats up mile after mile of poorly maintained pavement, and takes the edge off of all but the worst chuck holes (which really no vehicle stands a chance agains). To me, that's a better riding car. If, on the other hand, you are looking for the old 80's-early 90's Buick Roadmaster floating sensation, you will be more disappointed in the new model than your 2013.

Overall I think it's a very comfortable and quiet ride. It's a head and shoulders level improvement of the previous ES in several areas (styling/design, driving feel, interior quality), while yes, evolutionary in others.

If there is a closer dealer that you two could go to and at least experience the car first hand, I'd recommend you do that first. What does the color matter if you don't like the car it's on in the first place?

This is not your father's Oldsmobile:)

I'll stand by my opinion that the differences between 2013 and 2019-20 are insignificant. One thing that I really dislike is the 8 speed tranny. I'd take the 6 speed back any day. Yes the leather in the UL is nicer, the UL suspension is good, but Lexus also took away some of the features from gen 6. In any case, I own it, it's mine and it's not going anywhere anytime soon... Just passed 4300 miles, bought it in December 2018... :cool:

Thanks for all the info guys... we are going to a dealership this weekend and at least try it out. The dealer that is 50 miles from us now has the Atomic and Silver Lining ... and one has the ML system. Maybe our patience will pay off, unless they sell one or both by the weekend... lol.

The video review was very interesting... and will make test driving the care more interesting to see if what he suggest translates the same to us. I can assure you, the 2013 350 we have is fifty-eleven years from any Oldsmobile sled type vehicle... and is much closer to the Olds Achieva.

I don't know that the ML system will be that big of a deal after some thought. She has a very nice aftermarket system in her 2013 that she will probably want to take out and use most of it in the new one if she ends up getting it... so the ML might be a waste of money in that case. i was trying to prevent have to do the work, but she probably won't be happy unless it's upgraded to the aftermarket system like she is use to listening to... JL amps and sub, Morel speakers, and a computer programmed DSP for tuning. She is officially spoiled... and even at 57 she still likes it loud.

As for measuring quietness in a car... the decibel reading really does not tell the whole story. I measured the difference between our 2013 350, 2012 BMW 528i and 2010 Ford F150 Platinum many years ago with a calibrated microphone and REW (Room EQ Wizard). The BMW won the decibel rating only by a dB, but the truck was clearly the quietest, although the BMW was still quiet, but not as quiet on gravel roads... and the 350 was the loudest. It's all about how well the interior can absorb that initial sound, and at what frequency is the sound entering the vehicle. I was able to record the frequency with the RTA in REW, which we use in home audio, and found out why some vehicles may have lower dB levels, but sound louder, because of the certain frequencies entering the vehicle, as well as the vehicle can't absorb the sound as well, so it resonates in the vehicle and makes it seem louder. Some frequencies entering the vehicle were louder than others, even though the dB level was a few dB lower. For example, listen to a 30Hz sinewave, an 80Hz sinewave and a 150Hz sinewave all at the same volume setting... yet you will notice how much louder one is over the other, so depending on the frequency of the noise entering the vehicle, even though it measures the same decibel level, it can sound louder or quieter... hence the use of ANC in so many of the newer vehicles these days.

This is one of the best examples of someone who uses the right tools to measure how quiet or loud your car is!! And your explanation is right on the money. Thank you!

Speaking from my experience with the LS - the biggest factor in noise perception is road noise, which is a combination of the quality of the tire and the quality of the road surface. I'm lucky to live in the Orlando area where we have good roads for the most part. If you get on the Florida Turnpike you will see some sections of the road that are worn out and the noise is pretty loud, and some sections where the road is new(er) and the road noise drops dramatically. I have runflats on my car, which aren't great to start with, but they perform just fine for the most part - quiet on good roads and noisy on worn out roads. I had Bridgestone Serenity's on previous LS460s and they had less noise on worn out roads.

I'm thinking that if you have to go to this level of effort to determine which is quieter, it probably won't matter. Our '13 RX seems a lot noisier than my '19 ES, but I would expect that from an "SUV" and we have adjusted our expectations. That said, Lexus marketing says they made a focused effort to reduce noise in the 7th gen ES, and I think they have been successful. My wife and I often notice how quiet it is, especially on road trips.

We had a 2010 RX350 that my wife said was very uncomfortable, and couldn't adequately adjust the driver OR passenger seats to make it work. We eventually replaced it with our 2013 (same generation!), and she has no issue with comfort at all. I can explain that they have the same seats with the same adjustments, but it doesn't matter. To her, it's more comfortable, and that's a good thing! It helped me realize that your individual perception is everything, and it may differ between individual cars. I just can't explain it.

I hope you enjoy your new ES as much as I enjoy mine!

Edit: One more thing. I can't seem to make the transmission work the way it should. in normal mode. I finally figured out that I tend to drive the car a little more aggressively than Lexus likes. If I don't do that, it's fine. It's also better (but not right) in Sport mode, but I don't like having to put it in Sport every time I drive it. I usually forget until the first time it hesitates or does a less than smooth downshift. I discovered that using Eco Mode seems to resolve my issue completely. It took me a week or so to get used to the slower throttle response, but once I did I was happy. Plus, it will stay in Eco mode even when you turn the car off!