hillsnow

Good Afternoon!
This is my first post on Club Lexus. I have been following the site for some time now but never got around to making an account.

I am interested in purchasing either a new 2019 ES350 F-sport or a used 2015-2016 LS460 F-sport. I much prefer the look of the F-sport package than the Base on both of these models. My current daily driver is a 1990 Lexus LS400 so I am yearning for something that isn't approaching 3 decades old. It's a great car but some more modern features and comforts would be nice. I have not even considered buying another brand just because this car has been so good to me. As for other Lexus models, I just prefer to look of these two over the GS and IS and am more of a sedan person which is why I am not looking at the SUV's.

I was hoping some people would be willing to weigh in on what model they would choose and why (maybe even your pro con list). I intend to test drive both of them soon since that will probably be the best way to help me decide. Any input would be helpful! I understand this is the ES 7th Gen Forum but I thought it would gain a little more traction here than in the LS460 Forum. My budget is around ~$45k but I could stretch it into the lower $50k range for the new ES. Thank you!

mikemu30

My opinion biased of course as I have the 2019 ES FSport and absolutely love it. As far as comparing to a 2016 LS, my guess is the improvements in technology, safety systems etc are probably enough to push toward the 19. 2016 LS I believe is a V8 so a difference there although the ES V6 has plenty of punch imo.

nuraman00

I agree with the improvements in technology and standard features, with a 2019 ES F-Sport.

I would also see which one you prefer driving, the 2015-2016 LS F-Sport, or the 2019 ES F-Sport.

I think a 2019 ES F-Sport may be cheaper than a used 2015-2016 LS F-Sport.

nsaldanh

If you are used to an LS then a 2015 LS might be a better fit for you. The ES models are good, but LS is better. You may have to go to a 2013 or 2014 LS though to get to your price range.

SW17LS

The ES has the edge in technology being the newer platform has the updated infotainment, Apple CarPlay, etc, but overall the LS is more car which you'd expect given that new its twice the cost. Smoother, more refined, V8 powerplant is superior, interior finishes are considerably better, RWD vs FWD. Coming from a 1990 LS either car is going to be a huge tech improvement obviously. The LS has a solidity that the ES doesn't have.

With that said, the ES is a great car and will be an improvement over your 1990 LS.

Comes down to what you value, do you prefer a new car vs a used car?

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

The ES is a nice car for the money and as everyone has stated the tech and car is pretty nice. I would go with the LS F-Sport since they are RWD I'm not a fan of FWD but also I have not driven the new ES yet. I plan on doing that in the spring.

E46CT

If we're talking actual solidity (rather than perception), the new ES is way way ahead of the old LS in terms of solidity.

Lexus claims the new ES rivals the LC and new LS in torsional rigidity. Toyota's new platforms are billion dollar platforms.

No doubt the LS (even the old one) is still a nice car. If it were my money though I'd get the newer, more modern car with the newest platform which uses the latest manufacturing techniques, materials (extremely high mpa steel), body adhesives.

SW17LS

What I'm talking about is solid and quality feel on the road. No doubt the ES is a more rigid structure since its a much newer platform, as is the new LS...but the LS460 still feels more substantial on the road. Driving the same loop back to back in the new ES and my LS its obvious.

That doesnt make up for the fact that the ES is built to a standard that is half the cost of even the older LS platform. Having had several ESs and LSs and going from an LS to an ES and back to an LS, the ES isn't on the same level as an LS, even an older LS. If you drove even an LS400 or LS430 and compared them to the new ES, those very old LS cars will have several areas in which they excel over the ES. The ES is also a FWD car vs a RWD car, and to many people (myself included) this is a huge difference in look, feel, etc. V6 vs V8 also, the V6 is very smooth and powerful but it doesnt come anywhere near the feel of the V8 power plant in the LS.

They're just very different cars.

SW17LS

What I'm talking about is solid and quality feel on the road. No doubt the ES is a more rigid structure since its a much newer platform, as is the new LS...but the LS460 still feels more substantial on the road. Driving the same loop back to back in the new ES and my LS its obvious.

That doesnt make up for the fact that the ES is built to a standard that is half the cost of even the older LS platform. Having had several ESs and LSs and going from an LS to an ES and back to an LS, the ES isn't on the same level as an LS, even an older LS. If you drove even an LS400 or LS430 and compared them to the new ES, those very old LS cars will have several areas in which they excel over the ES. The ES is also a FWD car vs a RWD car, and to many people (myself included) this is a huge difference in look, feel, etc. V6 vs V8 also, the V6 is very smooth and powerful but it doesnt come anywhere near the feel of the V8 power plant in the LS.

Lets put it this way, if my LS460 had 100k miles on it and was well maintained and in good shape, I would rather keep it than trade it on a new ES. The new technology would make that trade feel good for a while, but once the novelty of that wears off the differences start to bug you. Having made that trade once I wouldn't do it again.

They're just very different cars, its not a knock against the ES, the ES is a great car for the money it just doesnt compete with a flagship sedan that cost twice as much when it was new, even if that car was a generation behind.

hillsnow

I appreciate the input. It sounds like (obviously) I am just going to need to test drive them both and see what I prefer. I like how you mention the novelty of the new tech will wear off quicker than the flagship feel of the LS -- I think that is an important point.

SW17LS

With that said, I had two ES's and they were great cars, I had my 2003 for 7 years and 165k miles, and my 2010 for 3 years and 50k miles. They were what I could comfortably afford at the time, and seeing that I lease for business a CPO LS would have required that I bought vs leased. But, I always in the back of my head was missing all the extra touches and feel of the LS.

hillsnow

I am leaning towards purchasing CPO if I go with the used LS. Would you say it's not even worth it to go through a 3rd party dealership? There are more options for me if I consider them but I am not sure about the risk. Thanks!

SW17LS

CPO gives you an additional layer of security and warranty, they also have good financing options...I'd choose CPO but I wouldn't be afraid of a good car that isn't CPO either.

mikesrx350

test driving the es there times this year and buying a 2010 Ls, i can say they are completely different automobiles,
If you
want
road presence,
torque curve of that sweet v8
passion power to drool for
awesome highway ride,
safety of being in such a large car
tons more room inside and above your head
and great rear wheel drive platform for great traction and no wheel spin when flooring car.
0-60 in 5.5 seconds
decent gas mileage its about 10 % more in ES at 25 or 26 mpg combined
living room in back seat that is hard to beat

or in the ES
state of the art electronics
newer safety suite of assistance
stiffer architecture, for less left to right movement in around town driving.
smaller vechicle
that you like a great handling fwd car, all my test drives i still felt the fwd bias that bothered me, and i swore i will never buy a fwd again after 2009 car i had
new design of seats, i actually like my 2010 seats better but used they can be worn if a larger person had them in older LS then the es seat would be better
0-60 time little slower
traction issues in wet weather with Fwd


its really a lot easier based on what you have driven and what you enjoy they are completely different vehicles.
i will say the 2019 f sport es350 drove great on my test drive and handled awesome for a fwd car
if the car was offered in awd maybe i would be more inclined with the es 2019
but a late model 13 on cpo Ls and the es its a no brainer go for the LS unless 21 mpg combined is a problem for you.

hillsnow

Haha I appreciate the comparison! I think I am leaning towards the used LS but I will still check them both out.