strelit

Can anyone who has driven a F Sport equipped with adaptive variable suspension chime in? I was wondering if there was a huge difference between "Sport" mode (available across all ES trims?) and the "Sport+" mode found exclusively on models with AVS. I've read that the Sport+ mode enhances the piped in engine noise even more than the regular Sport mode and tightens the suspension even further?

I've been searching for a loaded ultra white F Sport with the red interior but the closest configurations I've found is missing the AVS or the HUD. However, there are several loaded F Sports with everything I'm looking for but with a black interior. I'm leaning towards forgoing the AVS as I would only be using it maybe 25% of the time whereas the HUD is useful 100% of the time. But I'd love to hear feedback from those with real experience.

95bat

I can't answer your question about the difference between the Sport and Sport+ modes, but I don't think I'd give up the AVS. I drove an Ultra Lux and F Sport with AVS back to back... I really liked the ride of the F Sport with AVS. The Ultra Lux was more floaty, while the F Sport felt more planted. Both, however, absorbed road imperfections extremely well and were extremely quiet. I did try Sport mode (not Sport+), but I didn't want to floor it on a test drive so I don't know how much fake sound comes in.

This is from the Lexus website:
I'd keep waiting to find the exact car you want... I wouldn't spend $50k and settle for something less!

nuraman00

Is Eco mode the same between a non F sport, and F sport? Do they drive the same?

Is Sport+ only available on an F sport?

nuraman00

Does Sport mode on a F sport with AVS drive differently than a non F sport car? Is the turning more responsive?

signdetres

Have no experience with the new ES but am familiar with AVS in my GS F-Sport. This is the number one option I would prioritize over anything else. The Adaptive Variable Suspension is not just active in Sport S+ mode, it is always working to adapt and adjust to a number of factors including your driving style, the drive mode that is currently selected, the road conditions. It can adjust on the fly to counteract body lean if you suddenly take a sharp turn and can deal with rebound/compression as well. Each wheel adapts independently of one another for whatever the road may be doing at each wheel.

Not only does it give you a smoother, more comfortable & refined ride, but when you want to have a little bit of fun, it can stiffen things up and really transform the way the car feels for sportier handling.

Lexus says AVS only turns things up a notch when in Sport S+ mode but I've found that to not be the case. It adjusts in each drive mode so Sport S will be slightly firmer of a ride than Normal & Sport S+ should be noticeably sharper than Sport S.

95bat

Eco mode reduced throttle input. I believe they're the same.
In my limited experience in both, yes, turning is more responsive.
Agreed on a lot of that, except the more comfortable and refined ride. The Ultra Lux ES I drove was extremely quiet and refined. The F Sport was no better or worse in comfort and refinement. The F Sport did allow for more responsive steering and less body roll. I also found the F Sport seats more comfortable than the seats in the Ultra Lux.

nuraman00

Thanks. What models is AVS available on? Is it only available on F-Sports in general?

Is turning sharper and more responsive when it is on? So based on your experience, it works anywhere from Eco to Sport S+?

Do you think AVS is similar to Infiniti's Directive Adaptive Steering?

nuraman00

Thanks for the post.

So to experience the difference between a non F sport, and a F sport, I should pick Normal through Sport+ modes. Not ECO mode.

Is it possible to get both the Lux and F Sport packages?

Also, I was looking at the website, and it seems that the F sport comes with the Hadori Aluminum trim. Does someone have to get that? Or can they custom order a different trim?

Do they still make the Espresso With Bird's Eye Maple trim?

Also, how is the Striated Black Film Trim?

mikemu30

FSport comes with the aluminum trim ONLY. FSport and LUX are two different versions and you can't combine them.

signdetres

For the 2019 ES, it is only offered on the F-Sport trim. AVS (Adaptive Variable Suspension) does not alter the steering system - just the suspension. It is always adjusting multiple times per second. In Sport S+ mode, the most aggressive, the suspension settings are altered for a sportier & more dynamic drive. Even in the most aggressive mode, it is still adapting to the conditions and will try to iron out bumps where/when possible (such as when you're cruising in a straight line and not cornering). In Sport S+, you'll also notice the steering weight is increased for a heavier feel but in the ES, the steering ratio is not altered so the steering won't change its responsiveness. I would imagine the vehicle overall is more responsive and sharper due to the suspension changes when in Sport S+, however.

AVS is not similar or really even related to Infiniti's Direct Adaptive Steering system (I had it on my last car which was a Q50S). The Infiniti system uses a completely digital steer-by-wire setup to offer the steering ratio & weight adjustments. The closest system to this that Lexus offers is Variable Gear Ratio Steering or VGRS which still uses a physical connection to the wheels. In Lexus models that offer VGRS, Sport S+ mode does sharpen the steering by altering the ratio. For example, in the GS F-Sport with VGRS, # of turns from lock-to-lock can be varied from 2.3 to 2.7 turns. GS F-Sport without VGRS is 2.8 turns lock-to-lock at all times. A completely digital system like Infiniti's offers a much greater range of adjustability (I think # of turns from lock-to-lock in my Q50S was something like 2.0).

nuraman00

Thanks for the explanation.

How did you like your Q50S? I was looking at that earlier this year.

How would you compare the way it drove to your GS 350 F Sport? Does your F sport have VGRS?

It doesn't sound like VGRS is available on the ES 350 F Sport?

This article is a few years old, but says it's available on the LS, LX, and GS F Sport.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...eering-feature

signdetres

Great article, thanks for sharing. Hadn't read that one. And yes, my GS has VGRS. Luckily this is standard on RWD models and is unfortunately removed on AWD models.

I really liked my Q50S. It had every tech option like DAS, the predictive forward collision warning, etc. I could go on and on about how the Q50S vs GS F-Sport drive but I'll try to keep it short and sweet

The Infiniti is really great at being sporty and really great at being driven aggressively... Do so and it will reward you and you'll have a great time. This sounds great but the issue is that, at least where I live in SoCal, you don't really get to drive like that and spend most of the time crawling through city streets or in traffic and this is where you notice the downfalls of the Q50S. Super stiff and choppy ride, not very refined, quiet, etc. The seats were nice though. Overall, when all is said and done, it won't leave you with the feeling that you just got out of a real luxury car.

The GS is a true joy to drive and impresses me daily. I'm 13 months in and I find myself discovering new qualities about the way it drives all the time and it makes me fall in love all over again. It's a true pleasure to waft around town in the Eco mode and a real beast when you put it in Sport S+ and manual mode. Incredible combination of luxury and performance. In most cars, driving through parking garages, being stuck in traffic, etc. is a chore. I look forward to it all in the GS, but this is more of a Lexus quality in general and you'll probably notice this in the ES as well. You could be sitting in traffic or rolling at 5mph and there will be "wow, this is nice" or "wow, this is smooth" moments that you just don't get in the Q50S.

The last nail in the Infiniti coffin for me is the dealer/service experience. I've been to like 5 or 6 different ones in the SoCal area and had unpleasant interactions at each - no comparison to the Lexus service experience, IMO. My Q50S halfway through my lease developed this awful awful awful issue with the brake pedal where I'd be driving along and when I would go to hit the brakes and slow down, the pedal would just sink to the floor. Or I could be sitting at a light, holding the car at a stop with the brake pedal and suddenly the pedal would sink to the floor and the car would start rolling forward. It was a nightmare of an experience that Infiniti was not able to fix (they couldn't even admit there was a problem, let alone try to fix it after who knows how many attempts but many others have driven that car besides me and agree that there's something dangerously wrong with it).

nuraman00

I can relate to that. For the post part, I drive the ES in ECO mode. But in September, I drove it for 1.5 weeks in Sport mode only, just to see what it was like.

Because 97% of my driving is during commute hours with city traffic (I rarely get on the freeway in a month), I was capped at 40 mph. My foot wasn't even on the gas pedal most of the time, as I had to just let the car move without using the accelerator. At that point, I decided that if this is what most of my experience was like, then it wouldn't have mattered if I drove a sportier car. At that point, I didn't miss passing on the Q50S (other factors also came into play with that decision).

The past few days, I've tried Sport mode again, because I wanted to see how many mpg I would average on it for a full gas tank. I wanted to compare it to the 18.4 - 19 or so I usually get in ECO mode.

There's also been a little less traffic then there was during that September period, so Sport mode is more fun this time. And yes, it's fast and smooth.


I wouldn't say I had a bad experience at the Infiniti dealer. But the dealer seemed dismissive of what I wanted.

I asked about AWD. He said "most people don't want that".

I asked about pre-collision. Again, he said "most people don't want that".

I had come in with a pretty good idea of what I had wanted, yet he wanted to sell something on the lot, I guess.

Meanwhile I went to a few Lexus dealers this time, and all of them were ok with the possibility of a custom order. No attitude about that.

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So is the ES F Sport not able to have VGRS (or they don't offer it with it)? If so, that's a little disappointing. That they can't make this F Sport like the others.

signdetres

At this point in time it is not offered on the ES. I'm not sure that Lexus currently has VGRS on any FWD F-Sport models.

95bat

I've noticed you've been asking a lot about driving impressions and comparisons to others cars. I would STRONGLY recommend you take a little time and just go drive them! I was looking at the ES on paper, thinking I wanted one thing, then drove them and did a complete 180. The internet can only tell you so much... eventually you'll have to get behind the wheel