95bat

I've seen some blind listening tests done where people could not determine a difference, using the same headphones, between 320 kbps mp3s and flac files.
I'm not following you, I never said I can't hear any sound out of them. I hear enough sound from them and am happy with the stereo.

CJS57

After trying a ton of different settings, it seems the ML sound system fader wants to be left in the neutral or center position. If you fade it towards the rear speakers all that happens is the volume is lessened and the sound is not so clear and you have to turn the volume way up to get the same loudness as before. So basically we are stuck with the "center stage" presentation. With this arrangement, if I try to listen at high maximum loudness in the 45 or 50 range, it gets to be somewhat glaring and unpleasant.

Mike728

Not surprised at all, at least without more details. The quality will only be as good as the weakest link.

Also, were these the same people that think XM sounds good?

95bat

LOL couldn't tell you on that one! Maybe that's the part of the test they don't want you to see!

jimv1983

I guess good is relative. It also depends on expectations. I have a JBL system in my 2011 Camry. XM is about 70% of what I listen to. It has a large variety of music, comedy stations and all the MLB baseball games. It sounds pretty good in my Camry. It's not CD or high quality digital file quality but it's far from being bad. The standard Pioneer system sounds worse than my JBL system for XM but the Mark Levinson system absolutely sounds better than my JBL system. I enjoy it. XM is actually the reason I got the ML system over the Pioneer. For high quality digital files the ML system didn't sound that much better than the Pioneer but XM sounded way better on the ML.

95bat

I have to admit, XM in the past has been pretty bad, but XM in the the ES with the ML system isn't too bad. It's good enough that I may actually keep my subscription.

Barryabko

Hi All, This is post I made regarding the Mark Levinson sound system on the Lexus Enthusiast site a couple of days ago:

I'm about to lease a 2019 Lexus ES 350 and I saw this thread the night after my first test drive. I'm interested in the Mark Levinson system so I came armed today for my second test drive with a number of well recorded CDs to put the audio system through it's paces. After a small amount of adjustment (Treble -1, Mids -1 and Bass +1 with the fader set one click towards the rear) I found the system to sound quite good with the wide variety of music I played - even at high volume levels. Bass was pretty tight and went fairly deep, mids and highs were spacious, with good tonal quality that was relatively smooth and non-fatiguing. The system does have limits as far as volume as well as quantity and depth of bass response so it may fall short of the expectations of some listeners who listen to bass heavy music at high volumes. The system is certainly not the last word in resolution but it is relatively revealing so it will show the shortcomings of recordings that are not the best. The worse the recording the worse the system will sound (and vice versa). That is not a fault of the audio system so please don't blame the messenger. All in all, the Mark Levinson system does sound rather good and is worth the upgrade.

Just as a point of credibility: I have been a music lover, musician and audiophile all of my life and have been a professional in the audio industry for over forty years. For over thirty years I've been creating and designing high performance audio equipment for the company I own. My award winning products are sold in major retailers such as Audio Advisor, Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Amazon, etc. as well as worldwide through our distributors. Of course, all of my comments above are my personal opinion and I do respect anyone else's opinion even if it differs from mine.

Barryabko

Members on that site then asked me to evaluate the stock Premium sound system:

I stopped by a Lexus dealer today for the sole purpose of evaluating the stock "Premium" sound system in the 2019 ES 350 and to see how well I could make it perform. Let me start by saying that in my humble opinion, the Premium system is definitely NOT a bad sounding car audio system. After adjusting the settings as best as possible I found the audio quality to have a number of rather positive sonic attributes although the system's design has limitations and several idiosyncrasies that can be challenging.

Settings: The best sound was achieved by adjusting the Treble -2, Mids -1 and Bass +1. On some recordings I could set the Treble to -1 but on other recordings there was too much treble so I settled on -2 overall. The Mids might have been a little better at -1.5 but you can only change by whole steps so -1 was the best compromise. The bass also might have been better at +1.5 (+2 seemed to be too much for most recordings) so +1 was the best compromise. The fader made the system sound best when set to three clicks towards the rear. When the fader is set to the center position there is far too much volume coming from the front compliment of speakers. It makes the system sound "aggressive" and restricts the ability of the system to exhibit adequate spatial (or surround) qualities. The further toward the rear you set the fader the more the spatial qualities of the system become evident. The problem is however, that every click towards the rear restricts the overall volume capability of the system to a greater degree. I found the best compromise to be -3 (three clicks toward the rear). This setting "opened up" the spatial qualities significantly and still provided adequate overall volume levels. Even so, the maximum volume level these settings provided did keep the system on the more "polite" side and I would think that the peak volume when set this way might not get loud enough for some listeners. Four or more clicks to the rear just seemed like there was too much volume restriction overall. It's possible that if I lived with system for a while the final settings might be slightly different.

Tonal Quality: With the above settings (Treble -2, Mids -1, Bass +1, Fader 3 clicks toward the rear) the system sounded fairly good to my ears. The mids and highs are not that "transparent" and can sound somewhat harsh, edgy and aggressive depending on the recording. Bass was okay. The system is not outstanding but I think it's pretty adequate.

The ten speaker positions seem to be:
Dash: Right, Left and Center = three
Front Doors: Low and high in each door = four
Rear Doors: High in each door = two
Subwoofer in the rear package shelf.

The complaints about the fader are probably because people are used to hearing the mids and highs coming from the rear package shelf when fading toward the rear. The ES 350 rear mid/high speakers are instead placed in the upper forward part of the rear doors and the majority of their sound is blocked by the front seats when you're the driver or front passenger. It's possible that the high in the door positioning of the rear speakers is better for the rear passengers although I didn't sit in the back seat to check that. Additionally, the volume restrictions that occur when fading toward the rear can make using the fader frustrating for many listeners - especially if they are expecting it work similarly to other car stereo systems they've had in the past. Even with the above settings, the center image seemed to be optimized for the driver rather than for the front passenger as the image was primarily centered in front of the driver position as opposed to being somewhat more diffuse and in the center of the dash. I verified this by switching seats to the passenger side. I suspect there may some intentional manipulation of the phase aspects of the audio between the front center dash speaker and front driver's side dash speaker to provide this effect. It's also possible that the center dash speaker and driver's side dash speaker are angled somewhat inward toward each other so that their output converges at the driver's head position causing such a tight image.

All of the comments above are my opinion but I have extensive experience with high performance car audio having had many elaborate custom systems in my vehicles since the mid 1970s (Nakamichi, Rockford/Fosgate, A/D/S, Infinity, Alpine, Pioneer and many other top brands). Please let me know your thoughts and whether or not you agree with any of my findings.

Barryabko

Here's a link to the Mark Levinson website that goes into more technical detail about the system's design: https://www.marklevinson.com/in-lexus.html#lexus-es

User 41924

Well done, Barryabko! And thank you!

I find it just a little disturbing to think that I adjust the sound so differently, but still think the ML system in my car is WAY above average. To qualify myself, I'm absolutely NOT an audiophile! I'm old, and losing sensitivity to higher frequency. I have tinnitus (to much loud music in my misspent youth!), which also muddles the sound. I listen almost exclusively to streaming services, and find that I adjust expectations based on which one I'm listening to at the moment. Lately, it's been Amazon Music because I'm a Prime member, and it's easy. I even think it's a pain to plug my phone into the car, so I use Bluetooth and leave my phone in my pocket.

So, my music is adjusted to Amazon tonal quality as a rule. I have lowered the mids significantly (I think they sound "tinny"), the bass is pretty close to neutral, although I do adjust it depending on the track or artist, and the treble is left pretty high. I tried Tidal a week or so ago, and was really impressed by the sound. What I thought was interesting was that I ended up turning the mids back up more than I expected, and reducing the bass more. High end was pretty much the same, but note my earlier comment about losing high end sensitivity. In the end, I'll keep using Amazon. Tidal is just WAY too expensive for me, considering that I would mostly be listening during my 6 mile commute.

My point is, although we would all agree that we all have out own individual taste in music and how we like to hear it, I personally tend to underestimate the influence of the source and mixing of the music. I don't think I'm that unique in this regard..

Also, even though we paid extra for the ML, it's still an OEM system. It's probably never going to be perfect for anyone.

mikemu30

Sound settings are saved to each source independently just fyi.

Barryabko

Thank you, Woodrow.

DavidZ

As a fellow audiophile and high-end audio equipment designer, I appreciate your efforts and comments.

I purchased a 2019 ES about 3 weeks ago. I've been so overwhelmed learning and playing with all the new features, that I haven't spent much time fine tuning the sound settings. Before my purchase, I brought a CD with me to the test drive. Despite reading all the negative comments and having owned a 2004 ES with ML for the last 15 years, I was impressed with the ML sound on the 2019.

When I first drove my new car, it didn't sound right at all, but I wasn't concerned because I was satisfied with the test drive. When I looked at the settings, they were treble +5, mid 0 and bass +5. I thought to myself, who would think that's a good configuration? In any event, I turned them all to 0 and it sounds great to me. I will try out your equalizer preferences when I get a chance. The fader was set to 5 notches to the rear and I left it there. Today, based on your comments, I tried bringing it closer to center and I like it, but the way it was originally set is not that bad either.

Just curious, what CDs did you bring to your test drive to evaluate the ES ML?

Barryabko

I used these CDs for my evaluation of both systems:

Ingenue - K.D. Lang - Sire (a great recording!)
Nick of Time - Bonnie Raitt - Capital / DCC Compact Discs (high quality remaster)
First Sampling - Reference Classics
Promotional Sampler 1992 - Chesky Records
The Firebird - Stravinsky - Telarc
Warning - Billy Cobham - GRP (intense bass and dynamics with a lot of high frequency content)
Wide Open Spaces - Dixie Chicks - Monument (HDCD)
Winds of War and Peace - National Symphonic Winds - Wilson Audio
Center Stage - National Symphonic Winds - Wilson Audio
New York Reunion - McCoy Tyner - Chesky
A CD-R I made just to make sure it would play it

I also listened to various stations on Sirius XM - Everything from Hip Hop to Bluegrass

DavidZ

WOW! How long was your test drive?

How much time did you spend listening?