2019 Lexus ES 300h - Rear speaker problem
 

I recently purchased a 2019 Lexus ES 300h with the standard 10 speaker Pioneer system. I previously owned a 2015 same model. I was always happy with the sound system in my 2015, and assumed that the 2019 would be equal or better than my 2015. The issue I am running across is that the rear speakers let out about 10-20% of the sound that the front speakers do. When I play music, it's all coming out of the front speakers, and very little comes out of the back. I adjusted the fader, and if I adjust it to the back speakers only, you can barely hear the music even at a high volume. I took it back to Lexus, and they said I was the third complaint on this issue. We walked over to another new model on the lot and it had the same issue. Lexus is looking into it. Let me know if you have heard about this issue, and if there is a resolution. I love everything about this car, but these rear speakers do not seem to be working correctly. Thanks!

There's no issue with the car, this is how the system is built by design. See below! There's only two small 9cm speakers in the rear doors and the subwoofer mounted to the rear deck.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...4878612154.jpg

Maybe you should read my post above...

Yes! It's just the logic when you look at the speaker setup. In previous iterations; they have been utilizing larger mid range speakers mounted to the rear deck as-well. So you would be able to get that balance.

Now, you have 2 mid range, 1 center, and 2 woofers in the front. And just 2 mid range in the rear (subwoofer doesn't count, because its a subwoofer....).

I do NOT agree with the design Lexus, Pioneer, and even Mark Levinson (the ML system uses very similar architecture) used for this generation. But this is what they chose to do...And there's NOTHING that can be done to properly balance those 2 new systems for equal output at the front and rear (3rd party and DIY stuff is a different story). We can only complain so in the future they sort it out. Sadly, this is what everyone who buys this generation ES will have to deal with (me included in December).

Edit: And in case you're wondering, I did test drive the 2019 ES twice so far, and tried both the standard and ML audio systems. And yes, both of them are front biased. I'm pretty tech savvy, and I took my sweet time looking at all the possible settings. And thats just the way it is. Luckily for me though, I don't really mind the front bias, and can still enjoy my music this way. But can totally understand if it doesn't work for others.

Sorry to say it like this, but the press is garbage...Every review I read or heard about this car was all about how incredible the sound system was. That's if it was even mentioned in the review...When in reality its a pretty average sound system (with the balancing thing aside).

I'm sure people will come up with solutions, but chances are they'll be the warranty voiding ones. And honestly, when you buy a car at that price range, you expect it work stock from factory the way it should (at leas thats how I see it). As far as Lexus doing anything about it, highly doubt, you simply need to add more speakers. I don't seem them doing that!

Was it a design error? I doubt that too! It looks to me like it was intended/cost cutting stuff here. They tried to use the least number of speaker designs in the car to reduce research, and manufacturing costs for the new systems. To balance it out, they would've needed to come up with a 4th speaker type to be used on both the left and right sides of the rear deck of the car. So they simply didnt!

Please look at this diagram below, its for the ML system, it'll explain my points better. Look at how they lowered down the number of different driver types from 5 in the 6th gen to 3 types in this generation.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...42cb695f1c.jpg

Thank you for your great input on this. Although I am very disappointed with this new sound system layout in the 2019, I still love all of the other changes made to this car. This is my 5th Lexus, and I have loved each one. I'll have to live with this system for a few years.

I'm surprised there's a big difference between rear and front speakers. On the 6th gen ES, I keep my fader set at +1. These systems are designed to have the best sound for the front seats so most speakers are at the front, with only two door speakers and a sub at the back.

Hmmm only 10-20% of the sound from the back sounds horrible... Lacking the "surround sound" feel in the cabin takes a lot away from the music. I'll need to test it out at the dealership before I commit to buy.

I also just purchased the 2019 ES 350 and this is my 3rd one in a row, 2011 and 2105 owned before. I was so excited to get this car! Test drove it, without listening to the Stereo, bought it, took delivery and then turned on the radio for the first time...I was really upset that the Fader wasn't working and have made it a huge issue to the dealership. It is going in for service on 10/15 to do a diagonsitc test...but it seems this is actually designed this way, which I am driving around without the radio on because I absolutely hate the sound system.

So the question is how do you upgrade the sound system to allow for rear speakers to work properly for a balanced sound? I was told you can't just swamp out the speakers in the back because of the new digital stereo system. The only advice I have gotten so far is to add a subwoofer box in the trunk with a seperate amp and a bass tuner knob in the front off the console.

The last thing I wanted to do is turn a brand new car into some ghetto street ride! This also does not have a surround sound feel to it either....the other thing i'm thinking about is playing Pandora from my phone and bluetooth to a Bose portable speaker in the car. I really hope Lexus can come up with a way to configure the digital computer to add more fader for the rear.

Your explanation is excellent and makes perfect sense. Although not perfect sense to ES buyers. I'm wondering if any of the other luxury manufacturers have gone on to modify their systems as well. Vehicles such as Infiniti, Volvo, Benz, Audi, etc... Does anyone have any knowledge as to how their sound systems perform as compared to the "new" ES system.
My 2013 has the premium system and I was planning to upgrade to the ML system but now have reservations... Don't want to pay extra for sound that's probably equal to that in the 2013...

The ones I've experienced are Infiniti and Benz. Infiniti with its Bose is GARBAGE/JUNK stay away from that if you're looking for Audio quality.

Benz, I've been in the new E class with the $4500.00 Burmester upgrade. That is a whole different experience, and NO other car can even rival it...It blew me away. I sat in the Lexus LS500 with ML 23 speakers and didn't even hold a candle to the E class Burmester. I wonder what the S-class is like with the $6500 Burmester upgrade. Lol

Our RX sound system is pretty much like that as well. The rear passengers dont get great sound.

I have the opposite experience lol. I thought the Burmester sounded overly boosted and saturated, after a while my ears git fatigued from all the high frequency.

I found this thread searching Google for rear speaker issues on the 2019 ES 350. Very disappointed to see that Lexus has not acknowledged this... and it was not something I tested before purchasing the car... but the back speakers are basically useless. This is not a matter of "perfection" but on par with broken.

My question for you VLexus22 is in regards to the red highlighted part in your message.

Could you elaborate more on why the digital stereo system would not allow for aftermarket speakers?

If the size of the speaker and ohm loads were the same, the speakers could be swapped.

Digital has nothing to do with swapping speakers.

How is swapping speakers going to help? Correct me if I am wrong It's the lack of power going into the rear speakers that is the problem. If anything either 1)Add speakers to the rear or 2) add power to the existing rear speakers.

Either way its a hot mess and as someone who dislike hassel Id rather not mess with the electrical on a new 50k car.

My thoughts exactly on both of your posts. It seems like it is a software issue limiting how much power is going to the rear speakers. Even cheap small speakers are louder than this (given the right amount of current).

Yes. Its either a software and/or electrical type problem. You can get the current rear speakers plenty loud by placing the fader all the way towards the back and turning up the volume. Lexus has the sound system set up where 90% of the sound is either coming from the front OR back, not both, so no matter how you tweak it it'll feel unbalanced and lack immersion. Stupid IMO.

Such a shame especially since I feel the speakers itself is decent quality and produces nice clear sounds. I just dont want to hear all of it from 1 foot in front of my face.

I've been saying it all along... the system is working as designed and as many "audiophile" systems operate, with a front sound stage. Cars that compete for sound quality awards don't have rear speakers at all most of the time. The system is far from unbalanced because all the speakers aren't blasting as loudly as they can. All of these people are just learning an expensive lesson--they should have listened to it before they bought it.

I've been listening to the USB stick and have to see the sound quality is the best I've ever heard in a car. Perhaps I haven't been around enough but doesn't bother me one bit.

I partly agree about there being a lesson in the sense that going forward in life, I will always check the audio and balance in future vehicles... but I disagree that we should have listened to it before purchasing because of how obscure the issue is. Checking the rear speakers is not something most people would think to do, so while there is a lesson for the future, it is not a lesson that should have been learned beforehand.

Using that logic of "should have" is essentially using hindsight as 20/20... we can apply that logic to every random issue we have in life no matter how obscure... that does not make it fair. There is only so much research we can do before we make a decision.

Also using cars that compete in audio competitions is an invalid point. The people sitting in the back seat of the car are not entering a competition, and they want to listen to music equally with the people in the front.

By your logic, perhaps Lexus should have removed the seat belts in the back seats, maybe the seats themselves... and might as well remove the air vents back there too since "front stage" air is all that is needed for the driver... forget about the passenger.

And lastly... you say that the car is far from imbalanced and that people only think something is wrong because the speakers aren't blasting at max volume. This is an unfair statement as well.

The speakers have hardly any sound coming out at all when faders are balanced on the screen. No one is looking for max volume from the back speakers, they are looking for balance or some sound...
When imperceptible sound is coming from the back, that is completely imbalanced.

I wrote this long message because I feel your post does a disservice to the problem people are having and undermines legitimate complaints with a bit of "should have known" and "people are exaggerating". Perhaps I should make a Youtube video displaying my personal experience with the audio so that there is no misunderstandings or assumption of exaggeration.

Before I ordered my 2019 ES I test drove several times and listened to both the Pioneer and Mark Levinson systems. I didn't test from the backseat but from the front seat I didn't notice any imbalance between the front and back. Maybe it wasn't perfectly balanced but it wasn't enough for be imperceptible. I absolutely heard music from the back on both systems.

I ended up getting the Mark Levinson mainly because of how much better XM sounded compared to the Pioneer system. I'll do more testing and try from the backseat when my car is delivered in February.

I will do a recording this week (Wednesday most likely) of the back seat speakers, hopefully I can properly display the problem through video.
If I had to guess, it sounds like the back speakers have around 5% sound, maybe 10% sound when faders are balanced.
Also not sure if this is a widespread issue or only with certain cars, so that may lead to further confusion.

I'm not here to argue with internet champions, just trying to help. If you're looking for a quick fix for 'imperceptible sound' from rear speakers, there isn't one. As I said before, working as designed. Scroll up to the graphic of the speaker size/location in the ES. There is a 3.5" speaker in each rear door and that's it. If you were wanting something louder for rear passengers, you won't get that from a little 3.5" speaker. The 'little brother' Toyota Avalon JBL system put 6" speakers in the rear instead of 3.5" speakers. Maybe that car could have been an option for you if more rear sound is that important.

Go ahead and make your video, hope that makes you feel better about your purchase.

It's my opinion, after having the new car for about three weeks, that the ML audio system is about on par with the Pioneer system I had in my 2013 ES. I expected more and would not have ordered the upgraded ML audio if I knew it's quality. Alas, one must take it if buying an UL model Lexus. I am disappointed in the sound but agree that it is operating as designed.
I don't hear the crisp and clean music that I expected. I tried CD's, a flash drive, and XM. The best sound is from a CD IMO. I turned off the surround as a suggestion from Mike 728 but still don't hear what I believe should be coming from all those speakers. I must say that I did expect more from Lexus in a new generation redesigned vehicle. Unfortunately, I didn't have the opportunity to sit and listen to a ML system before I ordered the car as none were available. I took the pros and cons from this forum and decided to go ahead. I would also add that the measurement of sound quality, IMO, is a subjective thing and is different to various people.

Merry Christmas to all the members of CL and a healthy, happy New Year...

The personal attack highlighted in red is irrelevant.
My goal is to help raise awareness for an audio problem, and attenuate posts that may undermine it.
I will say that I do believe you are undermining the issue unintentionally because you are unaware or misunderstanding... and NOT because you are being malicious; however, you definitely are trying very hard to seek out a problem with the car owners rather than the car itself.

Let me clarify the part of your post highlighted in blue:

The 3.5" speaker in the back is plenty loud when the fader is set completely to the rear of the car, and volume raised to near maximum.
This indicates that the 3.5" speaker in the back is capable of producing adequate sound/volume, and this is not a limitation due to the size/diaphragm of the speaker.
This also provides evidence that the issue is indeed related to power distribution/software issues and something that Lexus can hopefully fix.

You are attempting to paint a picture where the members in this thread are seeking extremely loud volumes. The reality is that they are seeking out normal volume for the rear passengers, and for the cabin as a whole. Not 5% to 10% volume from the back which is clearly observed when the fader is slowly adjusted back and forth.

I hope this clears up why "car audio competitions" , "audiophile" , "speaker size" , "tacky owners wanting loud volume" etc. as you suggested are not applicable in this thread.

Cool story, good luck to you.

My FSport is the tightest feeling car Ive ever owned. To your point on the rear speakers, how many owners will be sitting back there🤔 I get terrific sound from the Levinson system in particular from the USB drive. XM eh.

I've heard the sound system complaints and I don't get it. I have listened to both the standard Pioneer system and the Mark Levinson system. I didn't read about the complaints about until after listening so I didn't listen from the backseat but the sound didn't seem anymore from the front than any other car I've driven. Plus, I won't be sitting in the back anyways.

As for XM the Mark Levinson sounds much better than the standard Pioneer system. That was actually convinced me to get the Mark Levinson system since I listen to XM a lot. XM on the Mark Levinson also sounds better than XM in my current Camry with the JBL system which is the premium sound system on that car. I can't wait until my car comes in probably in March.

Im with you. Im no audio expert but my goodness, it sounds great in my car at least in the front.

I'm getting absolutely no sound from the speakers in the rear window when listening to XM radio, even with the sound faded all the way to the rear. I get sound from the door speakers, but not the rear window speakers. Is that normal? The Nav manual has precious little guidance when it comes to this expensive stereo system.

p.s. The Mark Levinson website is no help. No manuals or troubleshooting guides. Just this note:


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...6afbcef8b7.png

What do you mean speakers in the rear window? Do you mean the door speakers or the subwoofer?