All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
04-26-18, 03:09 PM
#631
Lexus Fanatic
Here is a nicely done 360 spin video of the F sport exterior. Just like the Camry XSE, the new platform has done wonders to the proportions of the car, looks really good IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPiF2WG2lDY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPiF2WG2lDY
04-26-18, 03:21 PM
#632
Lexus Test Driver
Ok. Back on topic, regarding something about the 2019 7ES that no one is really talking about...
2018 ES350: 268 horsepower and 248 pound-feet of torque
2019 ES350: 302 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque (increases of 34 hp and 19 lb-ft)
2018 GS350: 311 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque
Btw 2019 ES350 and 2018 GS350: Only 9 hp difference, and 13 lb-ft (97.1% of GS350 hp capability, yet lighter)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/compar...-350_d917_d920
note: 2018 GS350 curb weight: 3,726 to 3,891 lbs
2018 ES350 curb weight: 3,571
2019 ES350 curb weight: 3,649
The 2019 ES350 car has also grown in most dimensions.
It’s 2.6 inches longer and 1.8 inches wider than its predecessor, with a 2.0-inch longer wheelbase.
The 2019 Lexus ES 350 is now a 300+hp car and still lighter in weight than the GS350. In short, it adds up to a potentially better driving experience and be more fun to drive than the 2018 generation and earlier ES350. It may not be a GS, but horsepower performance-wise -- it has creeped up to 97% of a GS, and horsepower out performs a 2018 BMW 530I(248hp) by 54hp. (note: BMW 540i clocks in at 335hp).
2018 ES350: 268 horsepower and 248 pound-feet of torque
2019 ES350: 302 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque (increases of 34 hp and 19 lb-ft)
2018 GS350: 311 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque
Btw 2019 ES350 and 2018 GS350: Only 9 hp difference, and 13 lb-ft (97.1% of GS350 hp capability, yet lighter)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/compar...-350_d917_d920
note: 2018 GS350 curb weight: 3,726 to 3,891 lbs
2018 ES350 curb weight: 3,571
2019 ES350 curb weight: 3,649
The 2019 ES350 car has also grown in most dimensions.
It’s 2.6 inches longer and 1.8 inches wider than its predecessor, with a 2.0-inch longer wheelbase.
The 2019 Lexus ES 350 is now a 300+hp car and still lighter in weight than the GS350. In short, it adds up to a potentially better driving experience and be more fun to drive than the 2018 generation and earlier ES350. It may not be a GS, but horsepower performance-wise -- it has creeped up to 97% of a GS, and horsepower out performs a 2018 BMW 530I(248hp) by 54hp. (note: BMW 540i clocks in at 335hp).
Well - you can't compare the performance figures of the new Lexus ES to a outgoing Lexus GS model. If indeed the Lexus GS lives, the Lexus GS will carry a TTV6 which will have more than the Lexus ES. I think the Lexus ES is under-powered for a 55K loaded Lexus. Toyota should have never shared the Camry/Avalon engine over to the Lexus ES. They should gave the Lexus ES an engine unique to Lexus. Its rather annoying that the Lexus ES is so similar to the Camry/Avalon.
Yes. It almost most definitely will out perform the 530i on a straight. This is the problem I have with the 7G ES. Lexus is literally one AWD option away from being able to use the Lexus ES as a 5/E competitor. They can't truly compete with a transverse FWD layout.
04-26-18, 03:30 PM
#633
Racer
Likely not a US market feature. Euro-spec models get the Lexus badging on the lower left on both F-Sport and regular trims whereas in US-market vehicles you get nothing on regular trims and F-Sport badging on the F-Sports.
04-26-18, 03:40 PM
#634
Lexus Champion
Going a little off topic so we can continue this via PM or start a new thread. Agree that the ES wouldn't be the place to take a risk.
Risk probably isn't the best word for it, but I'm referring to models/variants that aren't expected to sell like the ES/RX. IS-F was a big risk for them, but then they failed to follow up with one for the current gen. From an engine standpoint, they've been using variants of the 3.5L since 2005? Sure incremental updates have been made since the introduction, but very similar outputs since then. Awesome in 2005, kind of meh in 2018.
Risk probably isn't the best word for it, but I'm referring to models/variants that aren't expected to sell like the ES/RX. IS-F was a big risk for them, but then they failed to follow up with one for the current gen. From an engine standpoint, they've been using variants of the 3.5L since 2005? Sure incremental updates have been made since the introduction, but very similar outputs since then. Awesome in 2005, kind of meh in 2018.
As for the ES it is easily most daring iteration from Lexus. I don't now if Lexus should have an AWD version or not would anyone buy it?
04-26-18, 04:03 PM
#635
1998 gs400
2008 gs350
2015 gs350
2016 gs350
this is among other Lexus i have owned.
and back to the new ES? having this car to fill in the GS will be very interesting. i am not even sure how the reviews would be when they have to put this car up against the germans. some people will argue lexus is just doing their own thing, yes i am sure the sales figure would be nice but from driving pleasure perspective, i can't see that being an exciting thing
04-26-18, 04:18 PM
#636
Lexus Fanatic
and back to the new ES? having this car to fill in the GS will be very interesting. i am not even sure how the reviews would be when they have to put this car up against the germans. some people will argue lexus is just doing their own thing, yes i am sure the sales figure would be nice but from driving pleasure perspective, i can't see that being an exciting thing
04-26-18, 04:28 PM
#637
Lead Lap
Ok. Back on topic, regarding something about the 2019 7ES that no one is really talking about...
2018 ES350: 268 horsepower and 248 pound-feet of torque
2019 ES350: 302 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque (increases of 34 hp and 19 lb-ft)
2018 GS350: 311 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque
Btw 2019 ES350 and 2018 GS350: Only 9 hp difference, and 13 lb-ft (97.1% of GS350 hp capability, yet lighter)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/compar...-350_d917_d920
note: 2018 GS350 curb weight: 3,726 to 3,891 lbs
2018 ES350 curb weight: 3,571
2019 ES350 curb weight: 3,649
The 2019 ES350 car has also grown in most dimensions.
It’s 2.6 inches longer and 1.8 inches wider than its predecessor, with a 2.0-inch longer wheelbase.
The 2019 Lexus ES 350 is now a 300+hp car and still lighter in weight than the GS350. In short, it adds up to a potentially better driving experience and be more fun to drive than the 2018 generation and earlier ES350. It may not be a GS, but horsepower performance-wise -- it has creeped up to 97% of a GS, and horsepower out performs a 2018 BMW 530I(248hp) by 54hp. (note: BMW 540i clocks in at 335hp).
2018 ES350: 268 horsepower and 248 pound-feet of torque
2019 ES350: 302 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque (increases of 34 hp and 19 lb-ft)
2018 GS350: 311 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque
Btw 2019 ES350 and 2018 GS350: Only 9 hp difference, and 13 lb-ft (97.1% of GS350 hp capability, yet lighter)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/compar...-350_d917_d920
note: 2018 GS350 curb weight: 3,726 to 3,891 lbs
2018 ES350 curb weight: 3,571
2019 ES350 curb weight: 3,649
The 2019 ES350 car has also grown in most dimensions.
It’s 2.6 inches longer and 1.8 inches wider than its predecessor, with a 2.0-inch longer wheelbase.
The 2019 Lexus ES 350 is now a 300+hp car and still lighter in weight than the GS350. In short, it adds up to a potentially better driving experience and be more fun to drive than the 2018 generation and earlier ES350. It may not be a GS, but horsepower performance-wise -- it has creeped up to 97% of a GS, and horsepower out performs a 2018 BMW 530I(248hp) by 54hp. (note: BMW 540i clocks in at 335hp).
04-26-18, 04:32 PM
#638
Super Moderator
The new ES only looks good in light colors, and I think I actually like the exterior of this new ES better than the new LS overall, though I have to see it in person to have final impressions.
04-26-18, 04:43 PM
#639
Lexus Fanatic
04-26-18, 05:28 PM
#640
It's been a good run, but where this company is going is just not for me. When other brands expend, Lexus does the opposite?! Soon they will complete with Honda / Acura.
04-26-18, 06:08 PM
#641
Lexus Test Driver
Enthusiasts are no longer the focus for Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.
People are buying large executive cars because of the size and luxury content; driving dynamics rarely figure into equation. If you're a driving enthusiast who wants a luxurious large sedan that handles like an E60 M5, you're pretty much out of luck.
The writing is on the wall for the GS because sales have tanked at 15k total for 2016, compared to over 100k for the RX and over 50k for the ES in the US market alone. It makes no sense to spend billions on a new platform and a new model to target a rapidly shrinking segment. Lexus could do this with the LS and LC because of the shared components and the RC is a one-off special using existing parts. They could also be thinking that new ES sales would make up for lost GS sales so R&D funds would be better spent on the ES.
As for GS owners being left out in the cold, at least it's not as bad as Ford axing its entire sedan lineup. Jaguar, Alfa Romeo and BMW still have enthusiast-oriented models too.
People are buying large executive cars because of the size and luxury content; driving dynamics rarely figure into equation. If you're a driving enthusiast who wants a luxurious large sedan that handles like an E60 M5, you're pretty much out of luck.
The writing is on the wall for the GS because sales have tanked at 15k total for 2016, compared to over 100k for the RX and over 50k for the ES in the US market alone. It makes no sense to spend billions on a new platform and a new model to target a rapidly shrinking segment. Lexus could do this with the LS and LC because of the shared components and the RC is a one-off special using existing parts. They could also be thinking that new ES sales would make up for lost GS sales so R&D funds would be better spent on the ES.
As for GS owners being left out in the cold, at least it's not as bad as Ford axing its entire sedan lineup. Jaguar, Alfa Romeo and BMW still have enthusiast-oriented models too.
04-26-18, 06:09 PM
#642
Lexus Fanatic
04-26-18, 06:17 PM
#643
Yep, 2001 GS300, 2008 GS350 and 2013 GS350. I have bought them all and never leased a single Lexus in my life. Unfortunately, I am done with this brand.
It's been a good run, but where this company is going is just not for me. When other brands expend, Lexus does the opposite?! Soon they will complete with Honda / Acura.
It's been a good run, but where this company is going is just not for me. When other brands expend, Lexus does the opposite?! Soon they will complete with Honda / Acura.
I'm sure TMC is not stupid enough to axe the GS line just like that; I'm sure that there's some underlying reason - like a forthcoming 2022 GSe battery powered electric electric vehicle to take on the Tesla Model S & Porsche Mission e etc...
04-26-18, 07:01 PM
#644
Lexus Test Driver
Enthusiasts are no longer the focus for Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.
People are buying large executive cars because of the size and luxury content; driving dynamics rarely figure into equation. If you're a driving enthusiast who wants a luxurious large sedan that handles like an E60 M5, you're pretty much out of luck.
The writing is on the wall for the GS because sales have tanked at 15k total for 2016, compared to over 100k for the RX and over 50k for the ES in the US market alone. It makes no sense to spend billions on a new platform and a new model to target a rapidly shrinking segment. Lexus could do this with the LS and LC because of the shared components and the RC is a one-off special using existing parts. They could also be thinking that new ES sales would make up for lost GS sales so R&D funds would be better spent on the ES.
As for GS owners being left out in the cold, at least it's not as bad as Ford axing its entire sedan lineup. Jaguar, Alfa Romeo and BMW still have enthusiast-oriented models too.
People are buying large executive cars because of the size and luxury content; driving dynamics rarely figure into equation. If you're a driving enthusiast who wants a luxurious large sedan that handles like an E60 M5, you're pretty much out of luck.
The writing is on the wall for the GS because sales have tanked at 15k total for 2016, compared to over 100k for the RX and over 50k for the ES in the US market alone. It makes no sense to spend billions on a new platform and a new model to target a rapidly shrinking segment. Lexus could do this with the LS and LC because of the shared components and the RC is a one-off special using existing parts. They could also be thinking that new ES sales would make up for lost GS sales so R&D funds would be better spent on the ES.
As for GS owners being left out in the cold, at least it's not as bad as Ford axing its entire sedan lineup. Jaguar, Alfa Romeo and BMW still have enthusiast-oriented models too.
BMW has M550i, M5, M6GranCoupe, M760i, M850i GranCoupe and M8 GranCoupe on the way
MB has E43amg, E63amg, CLS55amg, S63amg, new GT63amg
This is not even including M3, C63 etc....
GERMANS have never offered more models and options for the enthusiast but you need to have the $$$ to play!
Last edited by RNM GS3; 04-26-18 at 07:11 PM.
04-26-18, 07:11 PM
#645
Lexus Test Driver
If the GS is officially gone then Lexus should make the IS a tweener model a la Infiniti Q50, so its bigger than 3series but smaller than 5 - this will look to be a huge value for potential buyers.
The "F" brand is officially done if GS goes.....ES Fsport is just weak.
The "F" brand is officially done if GS goes.....ES Fsport is just weak.
