ES300h vs RZ450e
 

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the RZ450e.

I have a 2022 ES300h UL (about 32K mileage) and I am contemplating trading for a 2023 RZ450e executive (fully loaded) (12K mileage). I am guessing I might be able to get very close to a one for one trade

I really like the ES but I am intrigued by the thought of owning a full electric vehicle. I am not overly concerned with the relative short range for the RZ, as I do have another vehicle for longer drives. Also I have recently retired so I suspect most of the time I will be making fairly short trips maybe 10-15 miles per day on average. I expect a level one basic charger would be adequate for most of my normal needs.

My considerations are
1) the RZ will likely depreciate faster than the ES
2) The RZ battery has a shorter warranty than the ES
3)The RZ quite possibly will have lower operating costs.
4) The ES has a bit better luxury appointments.
5) the RZ is one year newer and has less miles on it.
6) The RZ being an SUV may have some advantage in terms of space and possibly comfort.
7) RZ is AWD so potentially better for snowy conditions
8) RZ has marginally better tech appointments.
9) the RZ will have more remaining bumper to bumper

Any thoughts?

AMD is about to burst your bubble.
Get a Tesla Model Y instead.

I just made this same trade last month. Wife and I traded our 2019 ES 300h luxury for a 2026 RZ 450e Premium. We had test driven several used RZs as that would have been my preference given the depreciation rate on electric vehicles. We couldn’t find one that fit our preferences and then after reading about the improvements on the 2026 refresh we decided to just wait and get a new one. The pre-refresh model didn’t receive high marks in print or video reviews. The refreshed model received somewhat better marks, although range is still just “middling” at 260 miles for the 450e with 18” rims. I believe I read 300 miles for the front wheel drive 350e.

So far we love the RZ. Wheelbase is exactly the same as the ES, but the track is over an inch wider. The overall length is about 6” shorter than the ES. The ride with the 18” rims is better than the ES with 18s. The 20” rims don’t ride quite as well but my neighbor just tonight remarked about how smooth and quiet the ride was and I have the 20s. The RZ has a LOT of plastic: fenders and rocker panels and the area around the headlights. If course, so does our NX so I guess this is likely an automotive trend today.

A benefit you should add to your list is the Direct4 AWD system with the 450e. It is full-time AWD versus the part-time AWD like most Lexus SUVs. Better traction for slick roads but of course, BEVs lose some battery performance in cold weather so it is a bit of a trade off. My wife’s knees are very happy with the RZ since she doesn’t have to bend them as much to get in - a major concern as we considered the move. We already had a level 2 charger in the garage for our NX 450h+ so we didn’t have to worry about adding a charger.

We really enjoyed the ES but we have been wanting to try electric since our driving is mostly within 20 miles and we have the NX for longer drives.

One would base their decision on a Toyota mechanic YouTube clickbaiter really. J D Power rates Tesla consistently below industry average for dependability. One of the ugliest plainest vehicles on the road. Only thing uglier is the interior.

I think 2023 was the year Lexus discounted it $35k to get rid of them and could buy it for around $30k new. If that is what the used is going for right now that it was it sold for new. Could be wrong about year.

“ .... my neighbor just tonight remarked about how smooth and quiet the ride was ... “ I don’t think people remember what a smooth ride is anymore - they have come to expect feeling lots of impacts and bumps, even head toss, albeit less in a “smoother” car. So better than most still doesn’t equate to smooth - but that’s just my impression for average cars and drivers.

The Car Care Nut is not a clickbaiter. Years of experience working on Toyotas.

Toyota put absolutely zero effort on that car’s power train’s system.

The horrendous range and fluctuation is comical.

No doubt the Lexus interior is better. At least you’ll be comfortable waiting for the tow truck after your car ran out of juice 😆

"Why do Yugos have rear window defoggers? ... Keep your hands warm when you are pushing it!

I completely disagree with The Car Care Nut's logic. I think he has a bug up his behind and wanted to dis the car no matter what. His main issues re: the 2023 seems to be 1) the range and 2) multiple criticisms about various components beneath the front hood. But he admitted that what he said were oldish/inefficient designs of some of these components probably contributes to the car's reliability. He also very favorably commented on Lexus' extreme efforts about protecting the main battery - which is good thing. He also admitted that the car is a very comfortable drive. And for many of us who only need to drive 5-40 miles a day, range is a complete non-issue.

Yes, Most of what the care care says definitely sound biased. Range is only of marginal concern for around town driving.
For me I am most concerned that if I decide I want something different in two or three years, will I take a bath on depreciation on the RZ. More than likely EV's will continue to improve in areas of battery technology and longevity, so its possible that an older EV will become less desirable. On the flip side if the RZ is in fact designed with Lexus style reliability and quality, it may remain strong in the used car market.
Prior to my ES I owned a Lexus HS250h. If you read early reviews on the HS, it also got less than favorable reviews. I bought my 2010 model in 2020 for a very good price. Three years later I got rear ended and the car was written off. The insurance paid me 40% more than I paid when I bought the car. This was partly because of the Covid influence on used car prices. The other factor was that people were realizing that even though the HS got very poor reviews in 2010, the car itself was still true to Lexus form, and used models were still running as strong as ever with hardly any issues whatsoever. Mine was over ten years old and in my three years of ownership, I had zero repairs and minor maintenance events. The battery state was still as healthy as new and looking at the fuel consumption rates stored n the cars mileage history, it actually had better average mpg gas mileage than new. If the RZ is designed with similar over engineering it might be a great car to get. Lexus has a pretty good history with newly introduced models if we look at the original LS400, or the 2nd gen GS400, and now the HS250.

I had the RZe loaner for a couple days. It didn't feel nearly as refined as my es300h. I wouldn't consider it. RX Hybrid on the other hand, or NX hybrid.... those have my attention.

This is highly subjective, especially considering how different these vehicles are, but we don’t really get that sense regarding refinement - at least not comparing our 2019 ES 300h to a 2026 RZ 450e. I wonder if the loaner was a front-wheel drive RZ 350e? Considering how quiet and smooth the RZ rides, one could argue just the opposite based on my impression. The interior is certainly different, but the dash, screen and infotainment system feels exactly like our 2022 NX. The shifter is a little different though. The doors on the RZ have a more satisfying thump when they are shut than the ES, which had somewhat hollow sounding doors. The RZ 450e and the NX 450h+ are both rated at 308HP, which is noticeably more than the ES 300h. Those horsepower specs are for the 2026 RZ, I don’t have the numbers for the pre-refresh model.

The dealer tried to push an RZ on us (double digits in stock at the time) when we were shopping for the 350h. NFW. We bought the 350h on allocation and took delivery a few weeks later.

ESh all the way.

EPA shows only 196 mile range for rz450e. I mean all you gotta do is pop the hood and see there's no frunk. that tells you everything you need to know about that car. when stuff is done like this, it has ripple effect on just about everything. this car is just a placeholder to say "look we have EV" while they design an actual EV.

lots of junk in the trunk, rather get gas version at this point.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...0874058ced.jpg