Article comparing the new Camry with our Lexus ES...

https://carbuzz.com/2025-camry-vs-lexus-es/

 

IMO I have driven the Toyota and owning a ES350 there isn't any way people that have any experience with luxury cars are going to think that the new Camry is luxury.

 

You want to fuel the fire eh

 

Here we go again!

 

A better comparison, IMO, would've been the (discontinued) Avalon vs ES350....but Toyota foolishly killed the Avalon (after the 2022 model year)....we looked at USED Avalons (most of them were Rentals, as we weren't gonna do that)!

The Lexas has better materials, sound deadening and the warranty is better than the Toyota...it was enough reason for us, to go with the ES350!

 

Eh sorta, not really. They're comparing the 2025 9th Gen Camry cause it's "all new" and has a slightly updated hybrid powertrain, new styling, new interior, etc. Plus AWD option. The Avalon is already old news. Plus its a typical sensational car blog so they will post a lot of stuff for clicks.

The old (outgoing) 2024 Camry has a superior/safer stronger side structure than the latest current ES, so I suspect the 2025 Camry might be a bit better than even the OLD 2024 Camry even furthering its advantage at least safety wise over the ES.

 

I understand theyre comparing and updated model to a non-updated model....The last year Avalon ('22) and the 7th gen ES is a fair comparison (size / power train) wise.
The Avalon is similar (to the ES) in specifications - more than the (smaller) Camry.

 

They should compare the crown instead. Much closer.

 

I drove the new Camry to compare it to my 23 ES350. Although it is subjective, I believe the Camry looks much better. The Camry has a cushier seat, but that is where the positives end. All the touchpoints on the Lexus have nice leather, not the cheap-looking plastic of the Camry. The suspension is like night and day, and you must drive over broken pavement to appreciate the lovely Lexus rides.

 

The article did get one thing right, Toyota has moved their interiors up a notch or two in features, appearance and apparent quality (still not as nice as Lexus, including in areas you don’t see, like sound deadening and NVH reduction), and that will satisfy a lot of people and keep Camry selling well. Where I think things have failed is that while Toyota moved up, they have allowed Lexus to at best stand still and, in some cases, move down. Look at the TX versus a Grand Highlander, for instance, or even the interior of the newest RX. When you got into older Lexus’ you would be impressed right off, and feel like, okay, this is a lot nicer, something more special. Now that visual impression is “meh” or even, to some eyes, not even as nice as the Toyota models. Limited choices of interiors, less to no wood trim available (or highly restricted to maybe one or two colors), a confused image of less luxury than Lexus would have allowed in the past.

To their credit they at least seem to be making the seats a bit more comfortable with thicker padding, and things certainly feel of better quality in most places, but the overall impression is “is this worth it?”. Even brands like Mazda or Infinity are making interiors that look the part better than the RX/ES design school. While Genesis has its issues, they at least strike you as a luxury product when you get in one. (MB has just gotten tacky and overdone, in my opinion.). Lexus has a chance with the next-gen reboot (now MY ’26 apparently) to again make the ES a better product, not a “nicer Camry” or a pseudo sports sedan (in non-F sport models). If they come out with a new version that doesn’t stand out from its corporate stablemate I think they are going to throw away a lot of sales.

 

That is an excellent post! I doubt anyone can realistically disagree with anything you typed.

I would tell anyone on the fence to hold off until next year to see what the new ES will look like. If I were going into it today, I don't know if I would pay 55K for my ULux over the 41K that the top XLE goes for. The hybrid is pretty impressive, and living in a northern state, the added AWD would make a difference in snow and slippery conditions. Even with winter tires, getting up hills is still challenging with only AWD.

 

Not sure why they are comparing 7th gen ES with 9th gen Camry.
Will see what the 8th gen ES will look like.

 

Fun thread to read.

For what its worth, I drove the '24 Camry, Crown, and ES. Interiors on all but the ES was covered in cheapo looking and feeling plastic. Noise was also immediately noticeable.

 

Only on the luxury andf ultra luxury. Base has plastic & pleather.

 

CT, quit flogging this tired diatribe about the ES's supposedly deficient side-impact safety already. We've been around this block more than once.