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I look for trends in the data. Recent model years for any car might have stellar reliability ratings, but as the years click by a specific problem might start repeating in later model years.
Example: 2021 might show transmission problems (red) when surveyed in 2023 but the 2022 model looks great (green),
but if in the 2024 survey both 2021 and 2022 models are red for transmission problems, that could be a meaningful trend.
So it would be nice next year to see the 2021 ES showing green for engine (its already showing yellow). The V6 has been around a while so I would not expect too many surprises.
I had this engine in an '06 Avalon from 2006 to 2013, then in a 2013 Lexus ES 350 from 2013 to 2018. My 2019 also has this engine and all other years forward have the same engine up to 2024. I have a difficult time believing that in 2020 ONLY there's a problem. Add to this that there hasn't been any reports on this forum to my knowledge regarding major engine issues with the V6. I don't have a great deal of faith in the CR surveys...
FYI: They are not exactly the same engines. One is the 2GR-FE, the other is a 2GR FKS.
My 13 ES350 U/L went 150k with Zero problems. It may get worst possibly IMO on the newer reports with Lexus changing from 5k oil change factory recommendation on the 2010 ES350, and Trans fluid service recommended back then, to the new 10K oil and Lifetime Trans fluid claims. In other counties the same ES Models there, have shorter oil service interval from Lexus and Trans fluid service by miles in the Lexus Factory owners books.
The April 2024 CR Car issue was released and the ES350 V6 is showing Major engine problems for 2020. This was not apparent in the 2023 CR report (second attachment). I also noticed the ES Hybrid battery is a trouble spot. It's very unusual for Lexus Engines to have such below average ratings. Also interesting was the 2023 CR showed the Hybrid Engine with a red trouble spot but in the 2024 issue it was back in the green. I'm thinking timing cover leak for the V6 but what's going on with the hybrid. Some might also blame build quality during Covid.
I'm sure some would take CR with a grain of salt but I have based my car purchases for years on these ratings and never been steered wrong.
2024 April CR:
2023 April CR:
Transmission on the (non-hybrid) ES 350 should be in red 19 20 21 22 23 24 => BS reports
I had this engine in an '06 Avalon from 2006 to 2013, then in a 2013 Lexus ES 350 from 2013 to 2018. My 2019 also has this engine and all other years forward have the same engine up to 2024. I have a difficult time believing that in 2020 ONLY there's a problem. Add to this that there hasn't been any reports on this forum to my knowledge regarding major engine issues with the V6. I don't have a great deal of faith in the CR surveys...
You do know the difference between earlier 2GRFE found in Avalons and 6th gen ES 350 vs the newer 2019+ which uses 2GR-FKS, with the direct injection, which is known to cause carbon build up.
You do know the difference between earlier 2GRFE found in Avalons and 6th gen ES 350 vs the newer 2019+ which uses 2GR-FKS, with the direct injection, which is known to cause carbon build up.
5ES and 6ES share the same 3.5 2GR-FE engine. It is exaclty the same with some minor tweaks for better reliability (better VVT cam gear, better timing chain cover sealant, different plate under the oil filler cap).
The difference between the 2GR-FE and the 2GR-FKS is: plastic valve covers, different VVT-i oiling system, Atkinson cycle and port/direct injection D4-S system.
Because of the D4-S, this engine does not have carbon buildup problems.
Other honorable mentions are 2012-2015 (ish) RX, 2015+ CT, and LC. These cars are unique or set trends. UX is cool too.
Everything else is basically re-skins, platform sharing, or not that competitive in their class.
Opinions make discussions. I agree with the many who cite the 2002-06 LS 430 as Peak Lexus.
If I were to cite some other Lexus on the basis of uniqueness or trend leadership, it would of course be the original 1990 LS 400. It's the car that established the entire Lexus brand, stood the car world on its ear, and convulsed the whole German auto industry from the moment of its introduction. Hard to compete with all that.
Opinions make discussions. I agree with the many who cite the 2002-06 LS 430 as Peak Lexus.
If I were to cite some other Lexus on the basis of uniqueness or trend leadership, it would of course be the original 1990 LS 400. It's the car that established the entire Lexus brand, stood the car world on its ear, and convulsed the whole German auto industry from the moment of its introduction. Hard to compete with all that.
Had to look it up. 4-speed V8 making 250hp, and ashtrays in the door handles. My how times have changed
People need to understand that all of these reviews, from any source, are merely indicative of the information collected from their relevant source material, subscribers in the case of CR. Are they infallible? Certainly not. Are they still useful? I would argue yes,
First, if you’re going to use auto reviews, as in this example, it’s probably a good idea to look at various sources and then compare them, not just rely on one. If they all (or mostly) agree on a particular point, such as engine reliability, then it is perhaps something to take into consideration, which would then include something as simple as a Google search for “problems with 2020 ES350 engines” to see what exactly happened and what, if anything was done (perhaps a TSB or recall that fixed the problem. Secondly, recognize that many times people are motivated to respond to surveys like this if they’ve had a bad experience. Just look at reviews of airlines or hotels for instance. Most people who have a nice flight or stay never brother to post a review anywhere, but those who had a bad time are often angry and use the online reviews to say so; but that can give a distorted view for it shows the responses not of all users but only of those who took the time to say something, no doubt a very small percentage overall. Finally, I think it’s unrealistic to think that these sources are going to take the time to delve into all aspects of detailing just what the problems are with a particular model. If the survey was just about one car model, perhaps yes, that would be appropriate, but as a review of the entire production available in the country, then that’s just not going to happen.
Bottom line to me, reviews like CR or JD Powers, for instance, are merely pieces of information that should be taken cumulatively with a grain of salt. Some will be more reliable or less prone to manufacturer influence than others (Powers’ seems susceptible in that regard, IMO) but they can be useful if taken in the right context.
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Clear, sensible, savvy analysis of how to use car reviews. Thanks, ATL350!
I was a long time advocate of CR. In the past their advise held pretty true. One of my biggest complaints about my 2001 Toyota Solara was the breaks. Didn't matter what I did the braking was soft. They didn't last. When the car was a few years old, CR had low ranking on the brakes. This was also the year(s) when Toyota extended the warrantee on the engine due to a sludging issue. It wasn't the Camry engine. It was the 3.0 or 3.1L. They later found out that the reason was due to lease cars that the maintenance was ignored.
I recently saw a video on the 3 people of CR's upper management. They decided what goes into the reviews. Not impressed. Also JD Powers has been bought and paid for by the manufactures so forget their crap.
Bottom line is Toyota / Lexus, Subaru and Honda's quality consistently wins out over other brands.
The other thing to consider is the questionable reviews on the 2020 ES. This was during the start of Covid and they may have had supplier issues.
=> BS reports
