The finance guys probably earn commissions on the extended warranties and all the other upsells they throw at you - wheel protection etc. Huge profits in that stuff.

 

Exactly. There's probably more than 50% profit on the extras. People lose a proportional sense of value when they make a big dollar purchase and the dealers and the finance guys are right there to take full advantage at the most vulnerable moment.

BTW, I was also offered a lease deal during negotiation for my ES last year. I didn't even give it a moment's thought.

 

Would you please elaborate? I'm curious to know your reasoning.

 

I guess it was a BAD lease deal and not so GOOD🤔

 

Actually, I'm not asking about the deal. I'm curious to know the plusses and minus of the 2 cars from the poster's perspective.

 

From my experience driving the two, here are the pros/cons of the ES versus the LS. Bear in mind I chose the F Sport because I personally didn’t like the look of the non-F sport ES.

Pros:

-Handling is better in the ES

-Newer tech - adaptive cruise, lane keep, parking auto braking etc

-Better fuel economy

-More up to date exterior styling

-Apple CarPlay has been great for use with things like Spotify and Waze

-Less worries on repairs/maintenance (new car)


Cons:
-Ride quality - no surprise there. Generally like the ES ride quality overall except some harshness on expansion joints. That may not be an issue in the Lux or UL of the ES.

-Quietness on the highway. ES is quiet around town but I find the wind noise very annoying at highway speeds. I think mostly due to no acoustic glass in the F sport

-Seat comfort - seats in the ES are okay but the seat bottom doesn’t agree with me. LS seats I found more comfortable

-Solidity of the LS felt far superior to me

-Build quality of the LS is def better. ES is a great car but it’s not in the same world as the LS

-No AWD in the ES except with the 4cyl for 2021. I miss AWD (even in the dry) to effortlessly put power down. I feel like I’m always having to think about accelerating hard in the ES as it breaks the tires free pretty easily

-No heated rear seats in the ES F Sport

-LS felt more special to drive



A lot of these cons hadn’t been noticed by me when test driving the ES (highway wind noise, how much I’d miss AWD, how I’d settle into the seats over time) and the newer tech had lured me in initially.

 

Thanks, A3A. Very thoughtful.

 

No problem! Forgot one extra item in the cons list. The ES transmission behavior. It gets very confused in low speed driving, slowing for turns, etc. Sometimes it stays in 3rd and gives me a jump
in revs to speed up and sometimes slams into 2nd and takes off with too much aggression. There are posts about issues on here if you search for them. I can’t say for sure how the LS would be longer term, but in my forum research I’ve generally found little
complaint about the LS tranny.

If I could swap out my ES lease without so many fees and the hassle I’d do it tomorrow honestly. I have an enormous amount of regret over not buying a prior gen LS.

 

Yes, I've been following the discussions about the 7th gen ES transmission. My previous car was the 2004 ES and that had really serious transmission hesitation and jerking issues. In comparison, the 2019 ES transmission is OK with me.

The LS is not my cup of tea, but everyone has there own priorities and preferences.

 

There is a car for everyone! Ya wanna take my ES off my hands? jk

 

The trans in the ES has become my pet peeve and will likely be the reason I won't keep the car for the long haul.

 

If you're buying used already, get the LS no question. The ES is a fine car, but its not the LS. The only reason I would get an ES over an LS is if the ES were new and the LS were used, I just strongly prefer new to used cars. If you're buying new already its a no brainier. If you're going to get the ES, I would reccomend you not drive the LS lol

You can have Apple CarPlay installed also, I had it in my 17 LS.

 

No, thanks. Already got one.

 

I'm going to add one thing to my advice, understand that the LS is a whole other level of car. Its a lot more complex and sophisticated and that in turn means there is far more potential for expensive repairs down the line. The ES is a really simple car, FWD, MacPherson strut suspension, very common V6 without many frills there. The LS has a Mercedes style multi-link suspension front and rear with multiple control arms that need replacement, high pressure fuel system and electronic braking system with an actuator that does fail, they potentially have air suspension systems that can fail, AWD systems which increase cost to repair a whole slew of things you wouldn't think of.

The LS is the better car, but just know that with that comes the potential for more maintenance and repair.

 

ES suspension with AVS might be a bit more complex but all great points here.