wontonly

Hi everyone, sorry to be a bothersome first time poster here (although I swear you guys helped me out with advice on pricing a CPO LS460 several years back):

Anyway, I'm trying to buy a CPO 2014 ES350 for my aging parents. It's one-owner with a clean carfax in great condition, decent miles (53K), luxury package, beige, and has been sitting on the lot as lease return for the last 3 months.

Did all the research and Edmunds and VMR had the best price (for me) at outstanding condition for about $20K retail (but not CPO). It's listed at $23.5K online but the tag listed over $25K and the salesman made sure to show me that first.

I offered $19K and they would not even budge on a lower counteroffer at all.

So I walked away.

I figured that they'd be more flexible given it's the end of the month, it's been sitting around for 3 months, new ES350's are going for $34-35K (based on a thread here), and a complete redesign is coming in 2019.

Did I just lowball them? What do you recommend as the next steps and what price would you be comfortable with for this car?

lesz

Assuming that the car is a Luxury Package with navigation car and that it is in excellent cosmetic condition, the $23,500 on-line asking price is right around what I would expect or possibly just a little above what I would expect for such an ES with 53000 miles. Figure that they are marking up the price by about $2500 for the CPO certification.

While the dealer might be willing to go a bit lower after negotiations, don't expect to see a significantly better offer. Dealers know that typical buyers don't know how much discounting is available on a new car like the ES, and they know that, if they hold to their asking price, someone who thinks that he/she is buying an "almost new" car for significant savings will eventually come along and buy it for a price close to their asking price.

My experience has been that, if a CPO vehicle sits on their lot too long, they may marginally lower their price every few weeks, but, instead of making a drastic price reduction, they seem to prefer just to send the car to auction.

DanZ

A lease return is likely to be owned by Lexus financing arm and therefore going to auction would be the best way for the financing arm to recover the residual value on the lease return. The dealer also has to pay Lexus for certification and warranty that comes with it (both dealer and Lexus have skin in the game to assure certification warranty). The dealer also has the option of buying the car from the leasing arm, in which case it may continue to be on the lot for a longer period. I think $22K is a great price for the 2014 ES if you can negotiate it down to that level. If the car is truly in great shape, you might consider adding a few hundred dollars to $22K as your final offer. If you are not interested in certified vehicle, then $20K is a fair price for it and you might still get a year or so of original new car warranty depending on the exact date it was purchased.

morgan1819

It really depends on where you are located, the individual car, inventory level, exact options, what they have in it, etc. That car retails for 23.5k + most places. I see you are in Michigan ... you can find them beat up a little in Chicago and Detroit ... and they might sell a 'rough around the edges' city car closer to 22K.

wontonly

Thank you lesz, DanZ, and morgan1819 for your in-depth responses.

I was told that the CPO certification costs $1,395. I know that opinions are mixed regarding CPO, but I've always had good experiences, and figure that my parents will benefit from the peace of mind, plus the free two years of free scheduled maintenance that's also included (I'm told that the 60K schedule is pretty expensive). The car's in-service date is April 2014, so only 6 months of regular warranty left, and then 2 years of CPO unlimited mileage.

Doubt they'll call me next week, so figure I'll try my luck with someone else on Black Friday or last day of the month.

Thanks again and wish me luck!

a1richard

I was just quoted $500 for the 60k service on my ‘13 ES350, from my local Lexus dealership in the southeast.
Based on the detailed description, it is an extensive visual inspection, but the only things that they replace are the oil, brake fluid flush, engine and cabin air filter.

BradTank

It's a wallet flush.

Never get the "x thousand mile service" just have specific things addressed that the owner's manual tells you needs replacing.

bc6152

And the engine filter and cabin filter take about 15 minutes to change. There are youtube videos. About $30.00 for both at Walmart...

Freds430

As stated above the 60,000 miles schedule is brake fluid, oil change, tire rotation and air and cabin filters replaced. Doing this next week on our RX. Filters can be bought on line at Lexus Parts World. Use CL5 for a 10% discount. Air and cabin filters are around $18 a piece. They combined take five minutes to change even for a left handed mechanic like me. The oil filter is $5. I buy the five quart jug of Mobil1 at Walmart for $22. The oil and oil filter I take to my local Toyota dealer who charges $20 to rotate tires, $25 to change oil and $110 to change brake fluid. Total cost is $63 parts and $155 labor for a total cost of $218.

Mobil 1 runs their rebates twice a year in the spring and fall. The fall just expired October 31 but check back in March. I bought two five quart jugs at Walmart for $22 each and got a $12 rebate for both. Net cost $10 for 5 quarts.

https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mo...ll-rebate-2017

lesz

I also have all of the service for my 2 Lexus vehicles done at the local Toyota dealer, but I let them supply the oil and change the air filter. For the 30,000 or 60,000 mile service, I pay $40 (with a $10 coupon) for the full synthetic oil change, $10 for the tire rotation, $105 for the brake fluid flush, and $25 for the air filter. The total comes to $180 for all parts and labor.

Sadly, the service departments at Lexus dealers seem to operate on the principle that, if people are willing to pay a premium to buy a Lexus vehicle, they will also be willing to pay a very stiff premium for service.

Freds430

Absolutely agree and with Mercedes and BMW owners way more for service!!!

wdlugitch

There is no such thing as a lowball.

wontonly

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I feel better after taking a week to get clearheaded. The car is still there and listed for $500 less but still no calls from the dealership.

I get the anti-CPO argument, especially for the ES where people here are regularly getting new ones below invoice (so I’ll only be saving $10-12K for a 3 year old car), but my parents are definitely gonna keep this car so resale value is not important.

I’m planning to renegotiate slowly up to a maximum of $21.5K which will be a deal in my mind, so hopefully they’re desperate as well but not too desperate that they auction it. It will have been on the lot for three months in a couple of days.

Thanks again for the support. Hope I return the favor at some point.

wontonly

Just wanted to give everyone an update: My parents are now the proud owners of a CPO 2014 Lexus ES350 with Luxury Package and Nav!

Was able to get the price down to $21.5K through email and phone. Probably could've gotten an extra $500 or so off if I waited another two weeks, but I saw the car parked up front with a smaller price decrease and a big sign saying that's it's going to auction in 10 days, so didn't want to take any chances since the other CPO's even more expensive.

Will take delivery next week after the dealer promising to fix a few scratches and throw in some winter mats.

Thanks again everyone!

DanZ

Congratulations! Well done. I am sure your parents will enjoy the car.