newyerker

Finally went to the dealer to talk to the GM about my problematic ES purchase (more details https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...nt-repair.html)
I straight asked that they should take it back and I'd still go with them to find a new or used vehicle. He agreed surprisingly easily, and said with the current deals going on, it was hard to go for a used vs. new, which I could see.

Maybe I was way too naive but he was basically saying that he'll treat this CPO thats never left his lot, as a regular trade in and give me the KBB trade in value LOL, AND sell me a new vehicle.
I stuck around to entertain and he was pushing for a lease, with the current $5000 cash and everything, was not too bad I guess.
However, even with all that, the final numbers he quoted me on a 17 $45000 MSRP ES350 was 36/10k for $508 a month, after everything considered (including the trade in positive from my vehicle which I've made 6 payments on top of $4k downpay up front) and a MF of .0001 which I think is pretty high based on my research for the time being.

Does this make any sense what so ever? Lexus official website is advertising $299 mo with 36/10k with $4000 at signing (based on roughly $40000 msrp vehicle). With the trade (though ridiculous as is) covering pretty much that up front cost, not sure how he comes at me with $508 a month and saying thats the best he could do.

Time to work with a case manager from Lexus corp?

gmanusmc

We would need to see a complete detailed line by line breakdown of the deal but with the info you have provided, it doesn’t look like they are doing you any favors. I’m not sure what the current residual is on 36/10, but I believe the base money factor is .00001 (so pretty close to nothing). We would at least need to know the agreed to sale price and the net positive or negative equity they are applying to the new deal.

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

The 1st problem I would have before we went to the replacement car price would be giving me the KBB or trade Value on the Car I bought Lexus Certified.

How long ago did you Buy the CPO Lexus? How many miles did you put on it from the time you drove it off the lot?

lesz

One thing that makes it difficult to evaluate the dealer's offer is that, with the trade-in/buy back, purchase of a new car, and establishing lease terms all in one package, it becomes more difficult to figure out which aspects of the deal might be favorable and which are not. If it was me, I would break the process up into 3 distinct steps. First, I'd try to establish a fair trade-in/buy back price for your car. Then, I'd negotiate a purchase price for the new car. Only once that was done would I establish lease terms by subtracting the trade-in price and $5000 Lexus lease incentive from the purchase price and considering the residual value and money factor to arrive at monthly payment.

With regard to the dealer's offer to buy back your car, I'm not sure that I completely understand what they are offering to do, but, even without complete understanding, it doesn't strike me as if they are offering to do anything special for you. I agree with jgscott that, right from the start, the offer to give you KBB trade-in value is concerning. Even if the dealer offered to give you KBB retail, that would be a significant loss for you because, since a CPO warranty cannot be transferred, the resale/trade value of a CPO vehicle is no higher than the resale/trade value of a non-CPO vehicle, and the $2500 or so that you paid for the CPO certification would be lost. Thus, in the offer that the dealer is making, you are losing both the difference between retail value that you paid for the car and the cost of the CPO certification.

To me, if the dealer was truly making a "good will" offer to you, they should be offering to buy back your car for the price that you paid for it, perhaps, minus some minimal amount to account for the time that you had the car and the miles that you put on the odometer. Instead, my impression is that the dealer is doing nothing more for you than what they would be doing for any other customer who walked into the dealership and wanted to trade in their car and lease a new car. It looks to me as if what they are offering you for the trade/buy back is no different from what you would be offered by a BMW or Buick or other dealer if you walked into their dealership and wanted to trade your car for a new BMW, Buick, or other car.

As far as the lease terms are concerned, while the .0001 money factor (which translates to a 2.4% interest rate) is nothing special, the positive is the Lexus $5000 lease cash.

All of that said, I'll repeat what I think I said in one of your earlier threads. There are times when you need to consider when it is time to cut your losses. I know that your experience with your CPO vehicle has been disappointing and frustrating, but there comes a point when it may be the best to accept your loss, consider the experience to be one with lessons learned, and move on. I suspect that we have all had such costly learning experiences during our lives.

Good luck.

bc6152

I agree with Les. From the looks of this whole transaction, I think that this dealer is continuing to put it to you financially. It's quite obvious that he does not have your best interests in mind. As Les has stated, at some point one must step back, take a breath, and assess the situation from start to finish. Then make a decision as to going forward or simply bailing out and starting over somewhere else that, perhaps, is more of a quality dealer with integrity. Sometimes tough to swallow but sometimes simply the best solution...
Whatever you decide we all wish you GOOD LUCK!

Ratchey

I went through this same issue with my CPO RX450h. Only had it a few weeks, only put on a couple hundred miles. Took a loss of almost 4K on the trade in. The sales manager said they would take care of me but the trade in offer was the exact same as what Toyota offered and only 1K higher than Carmax. They pretend to be helping you,but be assured they will not lose any money on this and will make a full second profit on your trade in.

It will really make me reconsider purchasing a Lexus from this dealer next time, based on the way this was handled.

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

Do let me know when you find a dealer that “took care” of you..

bc6152

Well car dealers are in business to make a profit. However there are different ways to complete a sale of an expensive car. Some dealers are unscrupulous and will do anything to make the sale. Others make the sale but don't wind up screwing the customer in the process. I, for one, can say that I was comfortable and satisfied with the process and the behavior of the sales person. And I am very happy with the car I bought 5 years ago. Since joining this forum I've seen cases where the dealers have taken care of their customers. Not all, but some... I think that Lexus is one of the better group of dealers.

newyerker

I seriously appreciate everyone's help in this forum. I get so much help and more and could not be more grateful.
Also, while it sucks, kinda helps to know that I am not alone. And I agree Lesz, theres too much going on here and too much to think about, I could not think straight at the dealership.

I also understand that they're in it to make a profit, but what they're essentially trying to pull off on me is double dip three different ways, or triple dip i guess. Which to me is just shady as hell (First sale, profit from my trade in, and sell me ANOTHER lease deal - all from them themselves alone). Additionally, the sales guy that sold me the vehicle and sales manager were both let go from this dealer recently. Which makes everything seem even more shady.

I put on roughly 2500 miles since i bought the car back in April, it's been 7 months exactly since I bought it CPO, and its been in the dealer for at least half the time.
Those guys were literally 'properly' certifying this vehicle after the car sale was made in their own lot. They know the car inside out, better than I could ever, and I agree with a lot of other people that it's insane to offer me KBB trade in, and saying they're doing the best to match what they sold it to me for. And it wasnt even priced on 'excellent', not even very good. It clearly showed 'GOOD' on that trade in appraisal, hence why I thought they were insulting.

Ive so far made about $6800 including my down payment on the car, and they're now trying to apply $3225 of that in positive equity to the car, with about 5~6% MSRP discount. So with the
Here's a breakdown:

MSRP: 45,387
Savings: 2,106
Cap cost: 43,731
Tax: 1,246
Dealer/state fees: 507
Total price: 45,484.65
Net trade: 3,225
Rebate: 5,000
Net residual (.49): 22460.13
Drive off (nothing out of pocket): 8,225

They offered to take another $500 off which is not taken into account above, but I still wonder how the difference is so large with their corporate offer of $299 a mo / with $4000 due at sign. MSRP difference between that offer and the above is only around $3000.

Anyhow, I am not sure how much better the lexus corp can do working with a case manager, but plan on calling them to explain my situation.

lesz

A part of the reason for the $508 monthly payment is that the $2106 discount from MSRP is quite low. I'm not sure whether you are looking at a 2017 ES or a 2018 ES, but, with continuing low sales for the ES and other sedans, I'd expect that a "good deal" now would be around a 10% discount from MSRP (not including rebates) for a 2018 ES and around 15% (not including rebates) for a 2017 ES.

jgscott

iTrader: (1)

Again. I would make the case with Lexus Help about the Certification. 7 months is a while to have the car. Before I went to Lexus tho, I would present my point to the Dealer/GM. My expectation of a Lexus CPO and trust. Was the Car Certified correctly? Instead what I got was.......

Sometimes with Dealers its not going to make a difference to them. I would start somewhere like mileage deduction and month deduction of the 7 months and miles, in addition I only had it half the time, and the lost of the extra cost for CPO warranty I paid. I would ask that they put themselves in your shoes, knowing that they know more about cars and Value than you.

I would also mention that it mattered not where they compensated me, either showing a low Trade Value, but Big Lease discount, or High Value. Just the compensation, that I trusted Lexus, and the COP Process. This I would do and mention Hey, we might need to get Lexus Corp involved being it was a COP, that didn't live up to the expectations. Before I go to Lexus Corp. I thought fame Damage was a NO, NO, with Lexus COP, but I could be wrong. Look for every written/stated assurance in the COP Benefit from Lexus. Good Luck!!

Sammytime

It's time to enact the lemon law on this car if they cannot fix it. Sounds like you have had it in they shop in excess of 3 times. File a clain and they should take the car back and return what you paid, plus your trade

newyerker

Receiving continuous phone calls from a new sales rep the GM assigned to me, and explained my concerns.
He is going back to GM to talk about it, will see what they say and thinking I'll proceed with Lexus corp if they continue to take advantage of me even more...no guarantee they'll do anything more but worth my last shot.

From Edmunds 2017 ES lease thread, an expert was calculating less than $400 for the lease situation I've explained.