zes

The ES is nice. I know, I own one. But basically it is a Toyota Avalon in a nicer dress. And the Avalon is basically a larger Camry. They all have the same FWD drivetrain and simple suspensions. I used to own a Camry in the past and I swear every now and then I get a deja vu Camry like feeling from my ES. I don't mean it in a bad way as I loved my Camry, but in my opinion Lexus has not been able to take 100% of the Camry/Avalon out of the ES. It cannot, because they are the same cars underneath.

The LS represents the best that the Toyota (Lexus) Motor Company can build. It is not based on a cheap mass market car. You will save enough in depreciation to pay for the additional maintenance. No question.

SW17LS

So here's the question, why did you choose to buy an ES over a used LS?

Everybody here who chose an ES could have bought a nice CPO LS for the same money.

Not being a used car guy myself, that was my reason when I had my two ESs, I considered it heavily each time but I just couldn't bring myself to buy the used LS over a new ES.

Today in that price range I would buy a Genesis G80

irishbrahm

True enough; but that does not mean that the LS is necessarily built better than the ES. The CPO '11 LS460 that I had several years ago had rattles, squeaks, and a few other annoyances. The same is true for the '16 LX that I bought new, which is considered the best SUV that Toyota builds. On the other hand, so far my Kentucky-built '17 ES is perfect.

zes

I had never bought a new car in my life and with kids hopefully heading for college soon I felt this was my only opportunity. I learned that one loses immediately a lot on depreciation on a new car, which ties down one with the car for a few years at least to recoup the sunk cost. I would have probably bought an LS or at least a GS if I knew then what I know now. I still love my ES but I feel those $$ could have bought more value, as a three year old Lexus basically drives like new if it has not been abused and maintained well.

You are the best person to comment on this. Does your LS not feel like it has better build quality and more refinement relative to mass market FWD cars in which the ES is based?

zes

Agreed. Sorry you got a couple of outliers. Statistically, though, Toyota is know to build tight, rattle free, high quality cars, and Lexus has the reputation to taking it up a notch. I guess there are always outliers when one make hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

SW17LS

No doubt, the LS is considerably more smooth, solid and refined, the ES is fine but it's not the LS. I just don't think I would ever be satisfied with a used car unfortunately, even if it was a better car.

Wait until your ES is as old as your LS. Unfortunately Lexus no longer builds a rattle free car. Every Lexus I've had built this decade has had rattles.

irishbrahm

That's been true for every Lexus that I've owned with one exception -- the 2006 LS430 I picked up in '13. It was the smoothest, quietest, most awesome car that I've ever owned. I bought it with 120k miles from Nalley Lexus-Galleria and it had no rattles. Unfortunately I sold it on eBay in a moment of weakness when I convinced myself that I wanted/needed something newer. That was one of the biggest regrets of my life.

I think the 2005-06 Lexus LS was the best of Lexus engineering and quality -- perhaps never to be repeated.

SW17LS

My LS430, LS400 and ES300 were all rattle free even with well over 100k miles. My LS460 is just as nice to drive as the LS430, but the build isn't as tight.

Mines rattle free now, but I had to disassemble the console and dampen buzzes and rattles myself.

BradTank

The whole "ES is based on a lesser Toyota car" has just never really bothered me. Lexus flagship LS also largely has the same engine as Toyota's trucks. There's all sorts of overlap with car makers and its the complete package is what I look for, not the pedigree of each part.

I know when I drove an Avalon and ES back to back they were dramatically different in almost every way and I never would have pieced together they share the same platform.

SW17LS

The LS may share basic engine framework with the Tundra, but it's not the same engine, and the platform is 100% bespoke to Lexus.

The ES uses the exact same engine, transmission, much of the suspension parts as the Avalon/Camry. That's not a big deal IMHO at the ES' price point, but once you get up into the better Lexus cars on their own platforms you see the payoffs that gives you. They're considerable, but money is money and they cost more.

Personally, when I drove the Avalon and the ES back to back they felt very similar.

BradTank

Thats why I said "largely the same engine"

SW17LS

It's the same family of engine, I wouldn't even go as far as to say it's largely the same engine.

Like saying the ES and GS use "largely the same engine". Same family, wouldn't agree they are "largely the same". The ES and Avalon use the exact same engine and many other things.

Coulter

Out of curiosity, do you even own an ES that this forum is for?

I mean, I see your posts quite a bit in all sorts off different forums, mainly talking about how much better you think your LS460 is than all the other Lexus models.

SW17LS

I do not, but I do own one of the vehicles in the subject of this thread, and I've had both prior generations of the ES so I think I have a right to post my viewpoint.

Did you read what I posted in this thread? I actually said that I would buy a new ES over a used LS, and I posted what I thought was a pretty objective list of reasons why somebody should buy an ES over an LS. I also had several members specifically ask me for my thoughts in this thread.

The LS is a better car, I don't think anybody would dispute that (I see plenty of ES owners in this thread who have said that) but that doesn't mean it's the right car for every buyer. I chose the ES twice...

I've had the ES, GS and LS and each have their benefits.

BradTank

Well, you'd be wrong.


"Toyota spent considerable effort establishing the "i-Force" name for the V-8 engine it shoved into the first Tundra. Toyota will use the name again on both V-8s it's loading into the all-new 2007 Tundra. But with an output of 381 horsepower and 401 pound-feet of peak torque production at 3600 rpm, the new 5.7-liter i-Force V-8 deserves its own name altogether. After all, this is the most powerful engine--car or truck--Toyota has ever sold in North America. And it's the highest-horsepower engine currently offered in any new 2007 light-duty pickup truck.

Called the 3UR-FE within the confines of Toyota, the new 5.7-liter is built around the same structural architecture as the 4.6-liter V-8 in the Lexus LS 460 introduced last year."


Car and Driver


"the engine is a descendant of the 4.6-liter mill that powers the Lexus LS460 "