lesz

CPO standards require the tires to be replaced only if they have less than 5/32 of an inch of tread left. That amounts to only about 1/3 of the useful tread life, and, practically speaking, I start to think about replacing tires at around 4/32 if it is summer and 5/32 if it is winter. And the CPO standard requires brake pads to be replaced only if they have less than 6 mm left, which is also only about 1/3 of their useful life. Last year, I was looking at a CPO vehicle. It's tires had the minimum 5/32 of tread, and the dealer was absolutely unwilling to replace the tires or even to lower the price of the vehicle by a few hundred dollars to account for the fact that the tires would need to be replaced soon.

The CPO checklist, including information about minimum standards for tires and brakes is here.

http://www.lexus.com/documents/broch...t-brochure.pdf

SW17LS

My experience has been though they usually do those things. In any event, these are items you can easily check the status of and negotiate them at the time of purchase

morgan1819

Like a couple of others have mentioned, you can probably get a brand new ES in your price range. Test drive both, and see which you prefer ...

WNC

Now I'm really confused as to which one to purchase!! Just kidding, and I really appreciate the excellent info. on both cars.

Just retired, so I don't know how many miles I will put on it per year. I averaged about 25,000 miles per yr. while working. I plan to travel a lot, but will fly to most places. I tend to keep my cars 8-10 years. I can afford the maintenance on the LS, but don't like to have to do it! Guess I have been spoiled with my 2008 ES 350. 9 yrs. 200,000 miles and basically "0" maintenance costs! ( other than tires, brakes & oil changes)!

I've got to weigh it all out, however I now know that if I go the ES route, I will spring for a brand new one!

SW17LS

Just retired, not going to be commuting, might be a good candidate for the LS. Have you driven it?

Don't get me wrong, the LS very well may go 200k miles with no trouble just like your old ES, it just has more potential costs.

RayLS

I don't have a 13 LS. I do have an 08 LS and a 17 ES.
My advice is to drive both cars and decide. Compare the options. Is the LS well equipped (options)? Factory warranty? Only you can decide.
The LS may be officially a previous generation model but it is a better car.

I prefer to drive my 08 LS than my wife's 17ES.

The LS is more refine, drives smoother, and built better quality inside and out. Very good hwy MPG.
I get close to 30 mpg hwy with stock wheel/tire (now down to 27 mpg due to +2 tire size)
My 08 LS interior looks dated but the interior quality material is a lot better than the 17 ES.

13 LS - More costly to maintain, premium gas (we put premium gas in the ES as well)

17 ES - better MPG, regular unleaded, new tech

SW17LS

And the tech in the 13 LS is very similar to what's in the 17 ES.

lesz

Perhaps what is done to prepare CPO vehicles varies from one dealership to another, but I know that the dealers in this area seem to want to do as little as possible to a vehicle to meet CPO standards. As I said in my earlier post, there was a CPO vehicle that I might have been interested in, but it had only 5/32 left on the tires and only 7 mm left on the brakes, and the dealer was completely unwilling to replace the tires or brakes or to lower the price on the car a bit to account for the fact that the tires and brakes would have needed to be replaced soon. While I normally would prefer to buy a new vehicle, since this was going to be basically a winter vehicle, I thought I'd be okay with a used vehicle, but the dealer's unwillingness to budge on the tires and brakes and their unwillingness to negotiate much on the price cost them that sale.

In any case, anyone who is seriously considering buying any CPO vehicle should make sure that he/she gets a copy of the CPO checklist and that he/she examines it carefully to see what reconditioning has been done on the car and to make sure that wear-and-tear items are not at minimally acceptable levels.

Gekko

since your current ES still looks and runs great, you may want to consider waiting about 14 months or so and get the all new redesigned 2019 ES in September 2018. it will be here before we know it.

BradTank

Regardless of what you decide, from my vantage point it would be foolish to pay that much for a used ES. Just buy new at that price point even if you have to go out of pocket just a bit more, but many people here are getting them brand new right around that price depending on options.

The LS is a better car, but you'll be out of pocket on repairs, but it shouldn't be much in total dollars.

There is something to be said about a brand new car versus a 6 year old used one even if the new one is not as nice. I personally don't think the LS is "twice the car" the ES is even though it's priced that way.

SW17LS

I would buy a new ES vs a used LS personally. If I'm buying used already, I'd buy an older LS over a newer ES if both were used. I'm a new car guy though.

lesz

I believe that some of the worst car buys available are for 1 and 2 year old CPO vehicles.

The supply of those 1 and 2 year old vehicles is low because not many trade-ins or lease returns have yet come back into the dealers, and demand is high because there are many buyers who want an "almost new" car and who don't realize how much discounting is available on brand new cars. The result is that dealers are able to sell those "almost new" CPO cars for prices in the same range and sometimes even more than the prices for which someone could buy a new car.

When I was buying my new 2017 ES last fall, I was offered prices on brand new 2016 UL ESs that were actually as much as $3000 less than the prices for which the same dealers were trying to sell 2016 similarly equipped UL CPO vehicles. And the prices for which they were selling those 2016 CPO vehicles was virtually identical to the price that I paid for my brand new 2017 UL ES. And, because of the supply and demand situation and because there are many buyers who are unaware of the level of discounting on new cars, those dealers have been able to hold, for the most part, to the inflated prices for the CPO cars.

Gekko

agreed. 3 years old is the sweet spot if buying used/CPO. lots of leases turned in and people looking for something new.

BradTank

The CPO deals I see at the Lexus dealership really are awful, but maybe its different in other regions. I can't believe there's people that go for it but it must be smart from a marketing stand point because they seem to sell them.

You go on the car dealers website and its full of 1-2 year old CPO Lexus ES350's where they are asking like $38k.

Just psychologically, I need at least 20% off what a new car costs in order to buy used. When you start getting into like a savings of only like a couple thousand dollars, I'd rather have one brand new and I think you'll get much of that back when it comes time to sell.

lesz

What brings the prices of those 1 or 2 year old CPO vehicles to near new car prices is the large price premium that comes with the CPO warranty. What amazes me, though, is that those 1 or 2 year old CPO vehicles are the ones that should have little need for the CPO warranty because they still have 2-4 years left on their factory bumper-to-bumper warranties and 4-6 years left on their factory power train warranties.

I've been watching dealer sites for CPO NXs. Since, if I bought one, it would primarily be a winter vehicle that would be exposed to salt and the rock chips that are used to treat the winter roads here, I've been open to considering a used NX, but the CPO prices for a 2016 CPO NX are pretty much in the same range as what people are paying for brand new 2017 NXs.

Further, most used 1-5 year old Lexus vehicles that I see are CPO vehicles at Lexus dealers. Not many show up as private sales, and the ones that show up at non-Lexus dealers seem to be ones that are not in great condition. That makes it hard to find a used Lexus vehicle in great condition and whose price makes financial sense to pay relative to the cost of a new Lexus vehicle.