'16 ES 350 - stiff, heavy steering?
06-27-17, 05:05 PM
#1
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'16 ES 350 - stiff, heavy steering?
Greetings,
After parting with my loyal '98 Toyota last year, I moved up to a 2016 ES 350. 8,000 miles in, it's been decent overall, with one particular exception, the steering. Of course these cars were never known for quick or responsive handling, but so many reviews of the '13+ model still mentioned light, comfy feel. Indeed, when I start it up while parked, it feels fine (if it were like that all the time, I'd be in good shape), and so I didn't really notice anything off when I test drove.
But once underway, especially at speeds above 40 or so, it seems to stiffen up to the point it seems "sticky" and takes a lot of effort to either move it off center, or back to it. After turning a corner and straightening out, the steering seems to "notch" itself about 15 degrees off center, and I have to "drag" it back to center, like dragging it through sludge. Small back-and-forth corrections are kind of fatiguing, especially on the highway. Similarly, going around a long curve (and holding the wheel about 45 degrees or so), it takes quite a firm grip to stop it from yanking me back to center.
Lately, it seems to have gotten worse - or maybe I'm just getting more and more annoyed! I'll have them look at it at the 10K service, but I'm sure they'll say it's fine since it's so subjective. I searched around online and didn't see any other mention of it. I know it's different setup from the 5th generation, but I'm not sure who would consider this smooth, or comfortable. Is this just the nature of the electric steering, the way they are now? Mine has the 17" wheels and Michelin tires, pressures at 33 all around, which creep up to about 38 in the hot weather here, though it doesn't seem to vary with psi. I run in Eco/Normal mode, not Sport, where of course it gets even heavier. I assume the system is not user/dealer adjustable.
Anyone else thought the same, or been able to adjust the steering assist? I wouldn't think it was an alignment issue, but maybe?
After parting with my loyal '98 Toyota last year, I moved up to a 2016 ES 350. 8,000 miles in, it's been decent overall, with one particular exception, the steering. Of course these cars were never known for quick or responsive handling, but so many reviews of the '13+ model still mentioned light, comfy feel. Indeed, when I start it up while parked, it feels fine (if it were like that all the time, I'd be in good shape), and so I didn't really notice anything off when I test drove.
But once underway, especially at speeds above 40 or so, it seems to stiffen up to the point it seems "sticky" and takes a lot of effort to either move it off center, or back to it. After turning a corner and straightening out, the steering seems to "notch" itself about 15 degrees off center, and I have to "drag" it back to center, like dragging it through sludge. Small back-and-forth corrections are kind of fatiguing, especially on the highway. Similarly, going around a long curve (and holding the wheel about 45 degrees or so), it takes quite a firm grip to stop it from yanking me back to center.
Lately, it seems to have gotten worse - or maybe I'm just getting more and more annoyed! I'll have them look at it at the 10K service, but I'm sure they'll say it's fine since it's so subjective. I searched around online and didn't see any other mention of it. I know it's different setup from the 5th generation, but I'm not sure who would consider this smooth, or comfortable. Is this just the nature of the electric steering, the way they are now? Mine has the 17" wheels and Michelin tires, pressures at 33 all around, which creep up to about 38 in the hot weather here, though it doesn't seem to vary with psi. I run in Eco/Normal mode, not Sport, where of course it gets even heavier. I assume the system is not user/dealer adjustable.
Anyone else thought the same, or been able to adjust the steering assist? I wouldn't think it was an alignment issue, but maybe?
06-28-17, 01:31 AM
#2
I have 2016 ES 350 approaching 28K miles and had almost a year. When I first bought it, steering was fairly light though my complaint was that you had to turn it too much to make a turn.
So about a month or two ago, what happened was I started to get a weird intermittent sound while steering from the middle of the dash. The sound seemed to be coming from deep inside. Later I find out the electric steering motor is located there. I was waiting for the sound to get worse or happen consistently before I brought it in to the dealer since if it did not occur when I brought it in they would tell me there is no problem.
So the sound did not get worse, but what I notice now is that the steering is tighter and requires more effort to steer it. Also I am getting a whining noise that happens sometimes when I turn the wheel. Mind you these noises are very low and it has to be quiet for you to hear it. I am hoping something goes so I can bring it in have it fixed. If I bring it in now they would probably tell me nothing is wrong. It is harder to steer, but not so much harder that the mechanic will recognize beyond a doubt that there is a problem.
Maybe your car has gone through the same problem.
So about a month or two ago, what happened was I started to get a weird intermittent sound while steering from the middle of the dash. The sound seemed to be coming from deep inside. Later I find out the electric steering motor is located there. I was waiting for the sound to get worse or happen consistently before I brought it in to the dealer since if it did not occur when I brought it in they would tell me there is no problem.
So the sound did not get worse, but what I notice now is that the steering is tighter and requires more effort to steer it. Also I am getting a whining noise that happens sometimes when I turn the wheel. Mind you these noises are very low and it has to be quiet for you to hear it. I am hoping something goes so I can bring it in have it fixed. If I bring it in now they would probably tell me nothing is wrong. It is harder to steer, but not so much harder that the mechanic will recognize beyond a doubt that there is a problem.
Maybe your car has gone through the same problem.
06-28-17, 06:59 PM
#5
When driving in eco or normal mode the steering is very light and smooth in a Lexus. There is no way you can describe it as tight unless there is something wrong. If you have time I would still take it to the dealer and have it checked out. Better now under warranty than later. Even if they tell you it is normal at least there is documentation of the issue in case it does become obvious in the future.
06-28-17, 07:52 PM
#6
Something is very wrong. You need to show it to the dealer and get it in their records. You could raise a ruckus that the car is not safe to drive with a stiff steering like that. And you would not be lying. It is never a good idea to drive any car in which the brakes and steering are not 100% OK. Your steering sure does not sound 100% OK.
06-30-17, 10:46 AM
#7
I have a '16 and don't experience anything like what you are talking about. This may be a stupid question but do you have lane departure turned on and perhaps are experiencing that? I can remember when i brought mine home from the dealer I had to drive a long way on the interstate and was really freaked out fighting the car to change lanes (no turn signal....lol) until I figured out it was the lane departure trying to steer me back into my lane. I use the turn signal regularly now. 
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06-30-17, 03:11 PM
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Thanks all for the responses. I don't want to make it sound like it's unsteerable by any means, but it definitely seems sticky and sluggish, especially right on center where it's most noticeable. Sounds like it isn't normal (and I don't think my arms are particularly weak!) but shame there's no easy solution like a software update or something. I'd driven a couple other ES's on test drives and didn't note anything off, but then again they were only a few miles. Since my state inspection and 10K service are due soon I'll be able to have them look at it shortly.
To some of the mentioned points:
Norakat - I do hear a (very) faint "whirring" when cranking the wheel at low speed, but it's the same as other recent Toyotas we have in the family, so it seems normal to me. I agree it takes quite a bit of movement to turn (high steering ratio?), but that's fine with me if it's light n' smooth. But stiff and heavy, it just feels sluggish and laborious.
Ratchey - Agreed, the difference with Sport is definitely noticeable. I'm always in Normal or Eco.
Zipit - I thought of that too - I usually drive with it off, but tried it both ways thinking it might have to do with the motor that nudges the wheel back into the lane. But no difference in ordinary operation.
To some of the mentioned points:
Norakat - I do hear a (very) faint "whirring" when cranking the wheel at low speed, but it's the same as other recent Toyotas we have in the family, so it seems normal to me. I agree it takes quite a bit of movement to turn (high steering ratio?), but that's fine with me if it's light n' smooth. But stiff and heavy, it just feels sluggish and laborious.
Ratchey - Agreed, the difference with Sport is definitely noticeable. I'm always in Normal or Eco.
Zipit - I thought of that too - I usually drive with it off, but tried it both ways thinking it might have to do with the motor that nudges the wheel back into the lane. But no difference in ordinary operation.
06-30-17, 07:54 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Could be an issue with the tires or suspension, maybe excessive toe-in or lower tier pressure is causing the steering to feel stiffer. The electric steering motor is on the steering column. It makes soft whirring noises at low speed, it's especially noticeable on the hybrid when the engine is off.
09-05-17, 03:33 PM
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Just to update/close this out, in case someone has a similar issue in the future,
I recently had them look at it at my 10K service. I rode along and the tech didn't seem to have much trouble with it (though he was young and mentioned his preference for the stiffer tuning), so they maintained that's the way it is. It definitely hits a resistance and "sticks" about 15 degrees left/right of center as you bring it back and forth, so you have to give it an extra "oomph" to bring it back/past center. Unfortunately I think it's just a weak system used by Toyota - it's definitely the only car I've had where I can't comfortably steer it around at 30-40mph with one hand. I was actually going to ask to demo a used LS while there, but there were none on the lot. I may look to trade up in the next couple years, if the difference is truly that good. We'll see.
I recently had them look at it at my 10K service. I rode along and the tech didn't seem to have much trouble with it (though he was young and mentioned his preference for the stiffer tuning), so they maintained that's the way it is. It definitely hits a resistance and "sticks" about 15 degrees left/right of center as you bring it back and forth, so you have to give it an extra "oomph" to bring it back/past center. Unfortunately I think it's just a weak system used by Toyota - it's definitely the only car I've had where I can't comfortably steer it around at 30-40mph with one hand. I was actually going to ask to demo a used LS while there, but there were none on the lot. I may look to trade up in the next couple years, if the difference is truly that good. We'll see.
09-05-17, 04:03 PM
#11
The ES has probably the most overboosted steering on any car you can buy new. It reminds me of older American cars that wanted you to be able to turn the wheel with your fingertips.
So I tend to think something is wrong if it ever feels stiff or hard to turn.
I'd test drive an identical one and see if its maybe you or the car.
So I tend to think something is wrong if it ever feels stiff or hard to turn.
I'd test drive an identical one and see if its maybe you or the car.
09-05-17, 05:28 PM
#12
It seems real and it is unfortunate they are not taking this more serious.
I'm writing to express this although I will be stating to do so at your own risk.
I have an 08 IS-350 and don't care for finger light steering at parking lot speed. That said I found it very interesting that once the VDIM is inhibited by doing a dance with the parking brake and foot brake at startup, low speed steering takes effort. Like maybe 5x the effort which is fine by me and is the reason I am writing. If these can be inhibited at start up it may be worth it to give it a try as it may offer more insight into the depth of the problem.
That said, be careful and try this at your own risk. Something seems wrong with the calibration of your steering and should be pursued at Corporate level if the local dealer will not help you.
My best advice is to see if they can prove to you it passes factory calibration procedures.
Good luck...
I'm writing to express this although I will be stating to do so at your own risk.
I have an 08 IS-350 and don't care for finger light steering at parking lot speed. That said I found it very interesting that once the VDIM is inhibited by doing a dance with the parking brake and foot brake at startup, low speed steering takes effort. Like maybe 5x the effort which is fine by me and is the reason I am writing. If these can be inhibited at start up it may be worth it to give it a try as it may offer more insight into the depth of the problem.
That said, be careful and try this at your own risk. Something seems wrong with the calibration of your steering and should be pursued at Corporate level if the local dealer will not help you.
My best advice is to see if they can prove to you it passes factory calibration procedures.
Good luck...
09-05-17, 06:10 PM
#13
[QUOTE=BradTank;9974475]The ES has probably the most overboosted steering on any car you can buy new. It reminds me of older American cars that wanted you to be able to turn the wheel with your fingertips.
/QUOTE]
You say that like there is something wrong with that theory. I remember my Dad with an Olds 98--I think you could turn that car with your pinky.
/QUOTE]
You say that like there is something wrong with that theory. I remember my Dad with an Olds 98--I think you could turn that car with your pinky.
09-05-17, 06:21 PM
#14
I agree with BradTank: the ES and LS tend to have incredibly overboosted steering -- both in the older hydraulic systems and the newer electric ones. But that's characteristic Lexus.
As a side note, my dad had a '77 Olds Cutlass Supreme during most of my childhood. I never saw him turn with his hands. He made all turns with just one finger!
As a side note, my dad had a '77 Olds Cutlass Supreme during most of my childhood. I never saw him turn with his hands. He made all turns with just one finger!
09-05-17, 07:11 PM
#15
Pit Crew
There's another steering thread on here. The steering at highways speed is less than impressive on a car like this. It requires numerous corrections and it kind of annoying and takes too much energy.
On the highway, I switch to Sport mode just to get a "slower" steering wheel that doesn't require so many corrections and is more precise.
On the highway, I switch to Sport mode just to get a "slower" steering wheel that doesn't require so many corrections and is more precise.