howardj

To All,
I reached out to this forum in 2013 looking for some help and direction. I had a 2007 ES350 and 2010 ES350 and was concerned about the mouse for the navigation in the 2013. After everyone that responded said that I'd get used to the mouse in a day or two I went ahead and bought the car. It has been great and as everyone said the mouse was/is very easy for me to use.

So, I now have the 2010 ( my wife drives it and loves it) with just under 50,000 miles on it. I put on 4 new Michelin tires in April 2016 and new front brakes in April 2017. The 2013 has 38,500 miles on it and hasn't needed anything major. I'm diligent about tire rotations every 6 months but follow the dealer recommendation and change the oil once a year at 10,000 miles.

Now I'm interested in the 2017 ES350. Edmunds says that the technology isn't as cutting edge as it once was and they say that there are other cars in the class that they like as well or better. I thought I'd look at Buick LaCrosse and at the Toyota Avalon. My wife says that I'm nuts. She says that I have a dealer that I like and a service advisor that has become like a member of the family.

So I'm looking to see how everyone likes their 2017 ES, especially if you've had more that one of them before the 2017. How does this one compare? I'd also be interested in the deals that you've gotten on the 2017. I'm in the Greater Boston market and if any of you have been unhappy with your service advisor I'd be happy to suggest someone via a PM.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Howard J.

pab12

>I thought I'd look at Buick LaCrosse and at the Toyota Avalon

The Avalon is a stripped down ES. The new Buicks seem pretty nice (traded an '06 LaCrosse on my '15 ES350), but Lexus has RELIABILITY and RESALE value.

Plus no one will every be impressed that you drive... a Buick... (when they ride in it they may say: "Nice car, I never knew...". But when they see a Lexus they may either say: "Wow, you drive a LEXUS??", or they may just be silent because there is nothing that they can say.

While I've owned my Lexus no one has EVER asked me why I didn't get a Merc, BWM, Audi, etc. When I'm drive my Jaguar on the other hand I ALWAYS need to defend my decision to own one.

When you own a Lexus there is absolutely nothing that anyone can say to question why you have one. Lexus is absolutely the standard that every other car, than exotics of course, is compared to.

Facts is facts

=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2 "Satin Edition"

lesz

I had a 2013 ES, and I thought it was a great car. Last November, I traded the 2013 ES and bought a 2017 ES.

While the two are basically the same car, the changes that came with the 2016 ES re-fresh make it feel, to me, like a different and much improved car.

Feelings about the exterior changes made in the 2016 re-fresh are subjective and bring out strong feelings both ways. For me, I prefer the 2013 exterior, which, for me, has a feeling of subtle elegance, and I'm not a fan of the 2017 exterior, which, to me, is gaudy and unappealing.

On the other hand, the changes made to the interior of the car in the 2016 re-fresh make me feel like I'm sitting in a significantly more luxurious cabin than that of the 2013. Replacing the piano black on the console (for the Luxury and UL packages) with wood and the use of softer material around the perimeter of the console provide, for me, a fix for what I thought was the weakness of the interior of the 2013-2015 ES. Besides the nicer console, the upholstery and stitching on the seats was also revised in 2016 (for Luxury and UL package cars) in a way that gives the interior, I think, a more upscale look. There are other nice touches, including nicer switch plates and nicer interior lighting.

While the infotainment systems of the 2013 and 2017 ES are, on the surface, very similar, I've found that the Generation 9 navigation system in the 2017 is much improved over the Generation 7 navigation system in the 2013. The voice recognition system is much improved. Not only does it do a better job of understanding commands, it is capable of understanding a much wider range of commands for setting destinations, using the climate control system, using the audio system, etc. If you are looking for cutting edge technology, a Toyota or Lexus vehicle is probably not the best choice because Toyota and Lexus tend to be quite conservative with regard to using the newest technology, but I find that the technology in the 2017 ES does meet my needs, and it works well.

All-in-all, I've found that, with moving from the 2013 ES to the 2017 ES, there is enough that is new in the 2017 to make me feel like I'm driving a "new" and better car, but there is also enough that is same that makes the 2017 feel, in a good way, "familiar".

Wandl

Many of the 2016 and 2017's I've seen also come with the lane departure system plus adaptive cruise; talk about Lexus being behind the ball when it comes to making available some of these safety systems....finding adaptive cruise in a pre-2016 ES was extremely difficult. Given the fact that many Lexus owners keep their cars a while (i.e. buy vs lease), if you're going to keep it a while might as well get the features you'd really value.

Interior is a massive refresh for the 2016+ ES, and I anticipate a brand new ES for 2019/2020 (given the 2018 Camry is all new, I assume the Avalon/ES wouldn't be far behind).

lesz

Starting with the 2017 model year, all ES have the Lexus Safety + system standard, and other safety features also are on most ES. My 2017 has the Safety + system, including auto braking, radar cruise control, auto braking, etc. and also includes lane departure alert, blind spot monitoring, parking assist, rear cross traffic alert, etc.

After having now had those features on the 2017 ES for about 6 months, I know that I'll never buy another car without them, and they are a major reason why I traded the 2013 ES for a 2017. I figure that all that has to happen is for any one of those features to work properly to prevent a collision, and it would be well worth the minimal additional cost that they add to the price of the car.

newyerker

the only better alternative i can think of currently for the ES is Genesis G80
although it might be arguable the G80 is a GS competitor

howardj

Thank you to everyone that took the time to respond. I spent several hours today looking at ES 350's and driving the 2017 equipped with what I want and then some. Liked a car with a sticker price, destination included, of $46,164. Trading my 2010 ES 350 with 49,000 miles that had a sticker of 41,215, deal is at $27,000 with the trade. New car is a Nightfall Mica with Parchment interior and the bird's eye maple. Any thoughts?

jollick

Congratulations on your new ES!

BradTank

That's actually a pretty fair deal. Depending on how you want to look at it, you're getting like 10% off the sticker, plus like $15k for your trade in. If you're trying to get a better deal, I would consider whether you could be okay having an ES with fewer options and a lower sticker price.

I think though the smart money would be to keep your current ES that has only 49k miles with new tires and brakes. But if you're set on getting a new car, it seems pretty fair.

I definitely would skip the Buick, the resale value on those are pretty awful. The Avalons are nice, but a well equipped one is so close in price to the Lexus, I just don't really see the point.

lesz

I agree. According to Edmunds, your the trade-in value of your 2010 is likely in the $13,000-14,000 range. So, the discount from MSRP on the new ES looks to be a very nice discount.

As of the beginning of June, there is now a $1000 manufacturer's rebate on the ES. By late summer or early fall, I would expect that there is a reasonable chance that the ES rebate could be $3000 or higher, and that is also when the dealers will have unadvertised incentives available to them from Lexus to help them reduce their remaining inventories of 2017 vehicles. So, if you can wait about 3 months, I would expect that available deals will be somewhat more attractive than the very nice deals available now. While you should be able to get a nicer discount on the new car in a couple of months, the value of your 2010 trade-in won't be much less than it is now. One of the reasons why I'd expect that very nice discounts will be available near the end of the 2017 model year is that year-to-year sales for the first half of 2017 have been significantly lower and the forecast is for them to remain low for the 2nd half of 2017 (and for 2018).

daljaz

Hi Howard J.
You mentioned you were thinking about an Avalon rather than an ES. I bought a new '14 Avalon and drove it for 18,000 miles before I
traded it for an ES. While I was looking at cars, the dealer told me the Avalon was the same as an ES. They are not!!! The Avalon had a harsh ride and when I complained to the dealer, I was told that in 2014 Toyota beefed up the suspension to appeal to younger drivers. The Avalon came with Bridgestone tires, which may have been part of the problem but it not only had a hard ride, it had a good bit of road noise. The driver's seat was worked on 2 times within the 18,000 miles, and never was completely fixed to my satisfaction. Before the Avalon,
I drove Camrys and all of the Camrys in my opinion were quieter and rode better than the Avalon. I am totally satisfied with the ES and am sorry I did not just pass on the Avalon and
get the ES to begin with.

howardj

Once again my thanks to all who responded most recently. Please allow me to update everyone...... I have eliminated the Buick. It was never really going to be a consideration but now it's no longer in my mind. I've also eliminated the Avalon. Frankly, in my market, the service perks that you get from Lexus and the overall differences in the cars ( they are definitely not the same) makes the Lexus a far better choice.

Brad, I have a 2013 ES 350 as well as the 2010. The 2013 has 38,000 miles on it and I will give that to my wife to drive when I trade in the 2010. The 2013 is just better equipped and I'll feel better with her driving that.

As far as waiting until later in the summer, I think that the 2010 is more desirable with just under 50K miles than it will be at just over 50K miles. The 3 Lexus' that I've owned have come from 3 different dealers in my area. The last 2 dealers are very strong competitors and I went to the second dealership today. Same sticker price of $46,164 but this deal is at $25,000 and the trade, $2000 less than the first dealer. I also saw the Atomic Silver color with a grey leather interior and thought that was great!! Liked it much more than the Nightfall color. So. I think that's a really great deal and probably as good as anything will get later in the summer, so I plan to pull the trigger at the end of the week as I'll be out of town until then.

Thanks to all for your insightful comments and help. I truly do appreciate it.

Howard

howardj

Again, Thank you to all that response to my request for help.

I made a deal for a 2017 ES350 with a sticker price of $46,563 . I chose the Atomic Silver with the grey leather interior. I traded my 2010 ES 350 that had just over 49,000 miles and I put 4 new michelins on it in April 2016 and new front brakes, pads and rotors in april 2017. The deal was for $27,000 out the door. I live in Massachusetts so the sales tax is 6.25%. The doc. prep. fee is very high where I did business at $584. Title prep and transfer of restoration are $100 and the Mass inspection stick is $35. I don't finance so that wasn't an issue. I'm very happy with the deal.

The night before I was to pick up the car the salesman called me to say that the car had just been brought to the delivery area for the detailing area and he saw a dent between the right rear door and the rear quarter panel. Before I could react and say anything he said that he had an identical car, sticker, color, equipment, michelin tires, etc. and he was immediately having that car prepared to replace the damaged car. He said that when I came in for delivery the original paperwork would be cancelled and we would re-do it, a new form would be sent to my insurance agent to replace the one that had been sent ( luckily the registration transfer couldn't be done until I was there to pick up the new car) . He asked me to come in for the delivery an hour later than we had originally scheduled and everything would be taken care of.

It all went perfectly. I can't say enough good things about this dealership where I bought my 2013 ES but not my 2010 or 2007. The salesman is great. The sales manager is great. The service department and service writer are better than great. Again, this is in the Greater Boston, Massachusetts area. I'll be happy to give anyone interested in a new dealer the details in a private message.

Love the car. Really love the color.

newyerker

nice man. with that kinda sticker i guess purchase woulda been like 43ish and you got a great trade value i must say

lesz

With car sales, in general, down significantly, and, especially, with sedan sales way down, the prices that people are reporting are fantastic. It looks like a great time to be in the market for a new ES, and that will only be getting even better when both advertised incentives and unadvertised incentives increase toward the end of the summer and into the fall.

Congratulations to the OP. Enjoy the new car.