gmanusmc

Whoops - didn't see that - guess I'm always in ES350 mode - thanks lesz.

Sorry Fred - I'll go stand in the corner now lol.

danielTRLK

There are and people don't know about it. Also, how many of you are keeping the car past 100,000 miles? I get calls all the time, if you were a warranty rep or a UOA analyst you would know quite the opposite. Most people don't chalk up engine failures to oil or fuel. Not many people really know what they're talking about either.

Intrapid, this is a comment I frequently hear. "How could you know something an OEM doesn't or etc". I'll address as nicely as I can.....Well, think about this. Engineers are not tribologist's or oil analysts. 2. Engineers don't set OCI's!!!!! People really don't get this and it gets me going more than I'd like to admit. Here's the problem. If Toyota brings in a vehicle with 5,000 OCI's, they get penalized for every oil change you will do in the cars expected lifetime. If they drop the OCI to 10K, a figure they know they can get away with quietly, bing bang boom, they just saved MILLIONS per line up PER YEAR. Then there's the convenience factor of doing 10K, then there's the perceived savings of 10K, etc. Many of you have never designed an engine, so little do any of y'all know when it's being designed, there's an entire marketing team, sales team, legal team and PR team in the same room with you, telling you how if you don't get to 10K OCI, you're gone. 10K is the upper limit Toyota knows it can get away with. So my comment summed up is don't think engineers set OCI's, because they don't.

An excellent video of what I go through on the daily.

------ This is literally what happens when you put engineers, tribologist, marketers, sales people, legal and pr together.

Second, what do they have to lose? Did we all of a sudden forget Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, GM, Dodge/RAM/Jeep/FIAT, Volkswagen and Audi were cheating on emissions?!? I mean not like the billion dollar businesses would ever try to get away with something engine related!!! Thinking engineers run the companies is like forgetting they still have to make money at the end of the day.

To use the same rationale, I'll compare Boeing, they spend billions developing airplanes, one faulty wire shorts and you kill 300 people. Yet there's recalls all the time and they have a lot to lose, and every once in a while, plane goes down.

I'm telling you from experience with many UOA, these engines can do the 10K, but not with the synthetic from Lexus/Toyota dealers or plain jane Mobil 1 and OEM filters. It's possible but needs to be done right. With proper filtration, oil and fuel, 10K can be achieved and on some even more. Only UOA can determine this, nothing else, not even tear downs.

BradTank

On synthetic oil, I go around 8,000 miles and I honestly think that is complete overkill. 10k miles is fine with me. I'll probably never be comfortable going past that though.

danielTRLK

Brad, that's a starting point, but without UOA, you don't know what's happening.

You'd be surprised with UOA what you get back from people driving. It's all over the place and there is no one answer, everyone is different. Like the government saying we all need 60 minutes of exercise while some need 3 hours and others need 30.

BradTank

Honestly, I think that stuff is really hit or miss and largely just for academic curiosity. I just don't think a $20 oil test is going to be the definitive answer, but if you find it useful for yourself, great.
When people get those tests, about 99% of the time they say everything looks fine. If one of those test came back and said your fine to go 15k miles on an oil change, I simply wouldn't trust it as that could change as the engine wears down the road.

I think they are interesting to see maybe how far you can go before it becomes an issue, but changing the oil every 10k miles or less with a quality synthetic with a factory oil filter is going to be fine for 99% of new cars out there.

The rest of the car wears our well before the engine does from any sort of engine wear. Usually an engine problem as a result of oil is from extreme neglect.

BradTank

Where are you getting that a car company gets fined for how often the oil is recommended to be changed?

danielTRLK

I know why you feel that it is that way and I've said it before. It is because Blackstone is just really bad. A good automotive UOA should run $80-150. I second everything you say and those UOA from Blackstone and most labs almost always say everything is ok when it's not even by their own data, 100% agreed. I have promised myself to get off CL but I really wish I could have sent you a free UOA for you to experience! I now work in the filtration department at a different company so I can't do UOA for free anymore.

Those planes in the air don't stay up without the aid of UOA, next time you fly and you look at that turbine, there is a guy like me working round the clock to make sure there's no imminent failures about to take place.

No, in the many UOA I have had the privilege of doing, OE filters are rarely up to par and what is your definition of quality oil? For some people that's Mobil 1, for other's that's Amsoil SS or RLI BioSyn. Most off the shelf oils are not up to par, and one has to purchase either the high mileage version or extended drain versions to get a decent quality.

So the valve deposits that today's engines are suffering from, EcoBoost's dying at 100K left and right, should be attributed to what? Because I can tell you they're 100% oil related. A quality oil + quality fuel will prevent the deposit formation from occurring. Once a deposit starts to form, it doesn't stop. Today's engines are going DI, people don't understand pre2007 EPA Standards were very easy to deal with. On another forum I frequent, two guys started hammering me about no chance it's oil related, until those two mastertechs admitted they're seeing gunked up engines (BMW + Hyundai) like never before and couldn't explain the sudden change. BMW recommends intake cleaning at $1200 a pop, and I believe he said every 30-40K they were recommending it. Will your engine run? sure, but it'll be gunked up, poorly running and that effects fuel economy and power to say the least.

Tetguy answered your question in his post. This info is very hidden, few people really know anything when it comes to oil. Why? Well the less me and you know, the less power we have to question anything. OEM's don't want you knowing the extended OCI's are there for political and financial reasons. They want you to think it's because they're so good suddenly any oil will last that. Oil is more than a lubricant, it is the blood of the machine. It lubricates, cools, and is a seal in the engine. But have you ever wondered why our cars, including my super abused RC F, are coming with "liF3TiMe fLuiD" on major components like the transmission?

Zipit555

Slight twist on the conversation here. My car is 11 months old and I only have 4100 miles on it. (My commute is 15 steps down the hall. 😄 ). If I understand correctly, the manual says 10,000 miles or one year. At what time frame would you be comfortable pushing that limit especially with such low miles? I was wondering if I had 7500 miles at a year and a half if that is too long to wait?

danielTRLK

well I'd change it now. Get the break in stuff out. After that, you honestly need 2 UOA's to determine your OCI. Anything else is like throwing darts on a board

Oil from factory isn't the greatest, I don't think it would hold up to a year and a half plus this is the break in oil.

If youre going to do no UOA. Consider at least using M1EP , WIX XP filter and quality fuel(Shell, BP, Exxon). New air filters every 10,000 miles.

oil will oxidize after that long and will become very acidic.

gmanusmc

Holy moly - this is getting as good as some of the BITOG discussions.

That video is hilarious.

Poppa

DanielTLRK... first off the video was hilarious...thank you for that... back to the discussion at hand. As I stated earlier on this thread I use mobil 1 synthetic EP ( 15K miles ) but I change my oil and filter every 5 K miles because it just makes me feel better to not push the envelope on something I know is crucial.. as you stated, oil is more than lubrication, it is the lifeblood of the motor.. So I have no trouble changing it at 5K miles. In one of your posts on this thread you mentioned upper tier fuels ( I think it was you ).. Since the day I purchased my ES, I have used nothing but Chevron / Texaco fuel. Basically because I bought into the Techron hype. Your opinion on said fuel? There's an Exxon station much closer to my home, but like I said, I've bought into the Chevron / Texaco sales pitch so that is all that I've used... the only, and I mean the only time I've ever used a different fuel was when I was in parts of the country that dont have it.. then I use Mobil or Exxon. Your thoughts please.

danielTRLK

No problem, that is quite literally day in and day out for me. The best part is when construction companies ask if their million dollar equipment can keep running when they're already having issues! LOL

Chevron has a decent fuel, but Shell's additive is the darn best on the market. You really really need UOA to determine how a particular fuel is burning in your engine. The Exxon/Mobil fuels perform a bit better over Chevron's. I haven't seen a wow factor from the Techron additive and would stick to Shell or BP/Exxon.

Shell really hits the nail on the head with it's ability to achieve solvency with a good oil on post EGRed residuals. That's the problem with today's deposits, they're polar, few know this, few address this. Most of today's "experts" are confused on this matter. I was once on a conference call with a big big oil formulator(they're products are carried in AutoZone, Napa, O'reillys) and when a former colleague mentioned they should reformulate to target polarized deposits, they continued to ask as much as they could. We couldn't agree on the cost and they claimed they went to someone else. 6 months later, I'm now hearing word they have a new product that can reduce those deposits in engines, oh well. But people are still blaming it on all sorts of things including ethanol, lol.

Audi's, BMW, MB, Porsche's have HUGE issues with deposits. I frequently get the oh well where's all these issues then! Well, you don't hear of them because those OEM's include valve cleanings as part of the maintenance program. On a F/I engine, deposits will destroy turbos and efficiency. Many VW's with blown turbos, like a lot. My friend replaced his mother's turbo at 40,000 on her tiguan only to have it burn down in a fire the following week. But this isn't being blamed on oil, technicians think that this is due to parts failures. It's not, it's oil related and at the same time not lubrication related.

That was probably a longer answer than you may have wished for. In short, go with Exxon.

I will reluctantly admit, the Top Tier program did bring more consumers awareness of the importance of their fuels, now if only someone could show America how bad our fuels are.....

PhillyPhan

So, with all this information I think I'm going to stick to my 5k mile oil/filter change with Mobil 1 Full Synthetic. Now what are your thoughts on performing an oil change right after buying a new car. I always replace it after the first 500 miles.

chromedome

Thanks for the info danielTRLK. Better to be safe than sorry I guess, I wouldn't push a 10k OCI unless I was running the bits you mentioned or I didn't care if the car was going to make it to 100k miles. Maybe this particular forum has more people taking good care of their cars and keeping them for a long time.

Gekko

maybe the delicate balance is 7,500?