ES vs BMW refinement
05-19-17, 01:52 PM
#16
Before I bought by 2016 ES 350 Luxury Ed., I shopped around and test drove the BMW 535 and 528i. After feeling the response, acceleration, sound and feeling of that car, it is always a disappointment to drive this car. The transmission and drive train on the ES is a big disappointment. It feels sluggish every time I accelerate from a stop. It is also not easy to do a controlled acceleration at low rates and speeds. Its like a struggle with this car. And yes it does feel like a regular Toyota at times (most of the time). It tries to be refined but is really not. The drive train is antiquated. Don't like the steering either. Maybe aspects of the suspension might be better for smaller bumps.
On the other hand, the BMW interior is not very impressive while the ES looks very nice. Ditto with the outside of the car.
On the other hand, the BMW interior is not very impressive while the ES looks very nice. Ditto with the outside of the car.
05-19-17, 01:57 PM
#17
The ES350 has a smoother ride and the cabin is so very quiet.
05-19-17, 02:00 PM
#18
The 328i is a much smaller car than the ES350, especially when you consider the room in the back seats. The BMW 5 series would be a more comparable car/closer match size wise.
05-19-17, 02:19 PM
#19
If not, my apologies and ignore my post above.
Edit: I just checked CARS.com and right now, BMW 528's are as low as $43,xxx after big discounts (year end)? That would be better than I thought but an ES can be had for quite a bit lower at year end discounts too (mine stickered for $42,500 and was bought for $33,500 last year right before the 2017's were released.
Last edited by UKEE; 05-19-17 at 02:23 PM.
05-19-17, 08:09 PM
#20
Pole Position
Norakat: I'm curious. Your posts indicate a strong dislike for your ES. I can't help but wonder why you bought it and then why you keep it. It clearly isn't the right fit for your needs or expectations. Care to share?
05-20-17, 01:51 AM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
The 5 is a RWD, sport-focused sedan whereas the ES is a FWD lux people hauler. Leaving aside reliability and maintenance costs, they're completely different machines for different niches. If you don't like the ES, why not get another car? Life's too short to complain about a car that doesn't meet your needs.
That said, I was also cross-shopping the BMW 5 and Audi A6 when I was looking for a large premium sedan. I didn't care about handling or drivetrain layouts, I just wanted a car with a big back seat. The ES300h won out because it was cheaper than the others while being just as comfy.
That said, I was also cross-shopping the BMW 5 and Audi A6 when I was looking for a large premium sedan. I didn't care about handling or drivetrain layouts, I just wanted a car with a big back seat. The ES300h won out because it was cheaper than the others while being just as comfy.
05-20-17, 04:20 AM
#22
Lexus Champion
Guilty as charged. Maybe it's an old school adage but I believe it is true. When I was shopping, seemed quite a few - BMW, Audi, etc has these turbo 4s. I (personally) did not want that. Went to an Infinity and Lexus dealer. Lexus won but here in Colorado, AWD still would be a nice option. The 350 engine is great, the transmission seems to have a mind of its own. Usually acceleration is smooth and powerful, other times there may be a lag. Also at stop or even rolling I can spin the tires which is not really what I want. More experience/predictability will help. The turbo here at 5,000 ft has quite a following though- it certainly helps at this altitude. Hmmm- a turbo 6 cyl ES 350.... Bet someone somewhere did that...
fun car to drive. I hear complaints of hard seats on BMW, this is funny if a car like BMW has cushy cushy seats? Then how one can drive it like BMW? Still 2 BMWs in the family for younger family
members. Folks here is Lexus biased but BMW/Audi types are different class cars. Direct comparison is not possible. If I drove this RX like BMW going around a steep curve at full speed, RX wlll
go out of control, LOL Comparing engines, look at the power curve and drive accordingly. New generation ZF trannies one problem is they use dog clutches. 2 stage turbos are much better with negligible turbo lag. Audi uses super charger.
05-20-17, 05:45 AM
#23
Lead Lap
Like beauty, refinement can be in the eye of the beholder. If, today, I were to buy a BMW 5-series, I'd have many complaints about the car, but the shortcomings of that car (to me) would not be the fault of BMW. Instead, the reality would be that I had made a mistake in buying a car that was not built to meet my needs and whose "refinement" was of a different nature than that of the ES or other Lexus vehicles that were better designed to meet my wants and needs.
05-20-17, 06:00 AM
#24
It all depends on what you are looking for in a car. I bought the ES because I care about reliability, comfort , luxury, quiet interior, roominess and fuel economy. I am not interested in sport car. I don't throw my cars in corners. BMW focuses on building sport cars, good for them, I don't drive my car on race track. I drive on city streets full of pot holes. Lexus also have sport cars, ES is not one of them, so comparison here is not valid.
05-20-17, 07:15 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
It all depends on what you are looking for in a car. I bought the ES because I care about reliability, comfort , luxury, quiet interior, roominess and fuel economy. I am not interested in sport car. I don't throw my cars in corners. BMW focuses on building sport cars, good for them, I don't drive my car on race track. I drive on city streets full of pot holes. Lexus also have sport cars, ES is not one of them, so comparison here is not valid.
Most people are motor vehicle operators, others are drivers. When I drive I have to feel the road, I have to feel the engine, I drive watching tachometer rather than odometer. I am part of the machinery. Sadly those days are passing due to my age nearing 80 of age. I have to realize and keep reminding myself I am not young any more with good eye sights, hearing, and reflection, etc. Getting old is not fun.
05-20-17, 10:36 AM
#26
I drive professionally (use the car to serve business-class car service) and chose the ES because of Lexus/Toyota's reputation for reliability which is of foremost importance. I was willing to sacrifice the drive quality (comparing to a 5 series). Drive quality is not really that apparent until you've driven it for a while. Recently I ran into a few problems like discovering my transmission was underfilled from the factory causing some problems and now my power-steering is making some noise. I keep it because it is a big loss to trade it in, and still hoping that it is reliable over the long run.
05-20-17, 11:10 AM
#27
My brother has a 328i and I agree it is much smaller. When I ride in it I feel cramped compared to my ES and forget about back seat room and comfort, no comparison IMHO. I would take my ES any day over a BMW. But again that is just my opinion.
05-20-17, 01:08 PM
#28
Pole Position
I drive professionally (use the car to serve business-class car service) and chose the ES because of Lexus/Toyota's reputation for reliability which is of foremost importance. I was willing to sacrifice the drive quality (comparing to a 5 series). Drive quality is not really that apparent until you've driven it for a while. Recently I ran into a few problems like discovering my transmission was underfilled from the factory causing some problems and now my power-steering is making some noise. I keep it because it is a big loss to trade it in, and still hoping that it is reliable over the long run.
05-22-17, 06:29 AM
#29
Pit Crew
I bought mine to drive it, not race it, and it drives very nice.
Before I bought by 2016 ES 350 Luxury Ed., I shopped around and test drove the BMW 535 and 528i. After feeling the response, acceleration, sound and feeling of that car, it is always a disappointment to drive this car. The transmission and drive train on the ES is a big disappointment. It feels sluggish every time I accelerate from a stop. It is also not easy to do a controlled acceleration at low rates and speeds. Its like a struggle with this car. And yes it does feel like a regular Toyota at times (most of the time). It tries to be refined but is really not. The drive train is antiquated. Don't like the steering either. Maybe aspects of the suspension might be better for smaller bumps.
On the other hand, the BMW interior is not very impressive while the ES looks very nice. Ditto with the outside of the car.
On the other hand, the BMW interior is not very impressive while the ES looks very nice. Ditto with the outside of the car.
05-22-17, 10:37 AM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Before I bought by 2016 ES 350 Luxury Ed., I shopped around and test drove the BMW 535 and 528i. After feeling the response, acceleration, sound and feeling of that car, it is always a disappointment to drive this car. The transmission and drive train on the ES is a big disappointment. It feels sluggish every time I accelerate from a stop. It is also not easy to do a controlled acceleration at low rates and speeds. Its like a struggle with this car. And yes it does feel like a regular Toyota at times (most of the time). It tries to be refined but is really not. The drive train is antiquated. Don't like the steering either. Maybe aspects of the suspension might be better for smaller bumps.
On the other hand, the BMW interior is not very impressive while the ES looks very nice. Ditto with the outside of the car.
On the other hand, the BMW interior is not very impressive while the ES looks very nice. Ditto with the outside of the car.
What you should look at is a Genesis G80. Mainly ride focused suspension design, price point of the ES with the build being the caliber of the 5 series or GS. If I were to buy a sedan under $55k, thats what I would buy