champppy

Hey everyone.

Looking to purchase a ES350 either 2013 or 2014. Which one would you choose?

I have a few options:

2013/w Navi 40k miles - $20.5k NOT CPO - Good condition and maintenance history checks out - White/White
2013/wo Navi 48k miles - $22.8k CPO - Good condition - certified White/White
2013/w Navi 56k miles - $25.5k CPO - Good condition - certified Black/Black
2014/wo Navi 44k miles - $25.5k CPO - Good condition - certified White/White

The first listing is sold at a Toyota dealership, but cannot certify(CPO). The CarFax shows regular maintenance records at that Toyota dealership (or the ones nearby). The other two are at a Lexus dealership.

Are there any known mechanical problems with 2013/2014 ES350's? I've never owned a Lexus (owned many other brands and owned a Toyota).Never heard one person I know say one bad thing about one.

I'm leaning towards the first listing because I do not think the certification is worth the extra 5k and slightly more miles. I think I can negotiate to $18.5k or $18k, is that reasonable? (Lower or higher)
Also, are Lexus dealerships open to negotiate, if so, how much usually? Honestly do not want to pay more than 23-25k with TT&L- I can pay more, but would rather not. Navi isn't necessary, but a huge plus because it just flows better with the interior IMO.

Fillykonk

Looking at these particular options and if I were the one making the choice I would do the first one. It has navi, the lowest miles and the lowest price. Seeing of course that everything else about the car checks out to your satisfaction. I own a 14 with navi and have had zero problems with it. Lexus is known to be one of the most reliable brands on the road so I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. Let us know what you decide.

Mike728

It's hard to place value on the ones listed as w/nav. What other options/packages are included? Are they all just base w/nav?

lesz

I agree. Without a whole lot more information about each of the cars being considered, I would find it impossible to make any meaningful evaluation of the prices being offered for each.

Among those 4 cars, you could have, depending on their packages and other options, ones with an original MSRP of as little as $40,000 or as much as $50,000, and that difference in original price could mean a difference of $6,000 or $7,000 in their current value. Further, there can be a wide variation in what dealers might describe as "good condition", and that variation could mean several thousands of dollars of difference in what the vehicles are worth.

Besides the packages and options and the condition of the vehicles, another factor to consider is the tires. The car with 48k miles should likely be early into its second set of tires. The one with 56K miles is likely close to half way through its 2nd set of tires. If the other 2 with lower mileage are still on their first sets of tires, they will be needing new tires very soon, and that is an expense that needs to be considered. Also, as far as mileage is concerned, you can figure that, for an ES of this vintage, the difference in value is about $1000 for every 9000 or so miles on the odometer, and, for the CPO cars, you can figure that you will be paying between about $1500 and $2000 for the CPO warranty.

If you can provide more detailed information about what packages and what options each car has, I suspect that you will be able to get more meaningful evaluations of which cars seem to be the better buys.

RYZ

Hey there, my personal experience is a price of a car in absolute value is not everything because there are other things that should be considered. I just pulled a trigger end of year on a cpo 13 without nav but has all options except for ultra-lux: blind spot sensor, park assist, rear shade, heated seats & wheels, leather seat and best part is Lexus-installed remote starter. It is for $22k (plus taxes off course), 61k miles. I am at a point where I can;t deal with anymore car anxiety on repairs, visiting mechanics, etc etc. But would never buy new cars...

The Lexus dealer that I dealt with is barely negotiable (despite my patience on a few days with my offer). But the car is meticulous - it is bought and sold with the same Lexus dealer hence full service records, zero body paint (minor or major) and brand new tires and pads are installed (not sure if this is part of the cpo process). I think if a dealer has huge turnover and volume, generally their pricing is 'right' and not much room to negotiate. Lastly, i personally like to buy non-certified used car only from a dealer that sells new (i.e. used lexus from lexus dealers, used bmw from bmw dealers, etc). At least that way their mechanics have more knowledge on the cars. Hope these helps..

LS430inDE.

Why would you consider the black 2013 with 12k more miles than the white 2014? They are both the same asking price of $25.5k. Do you dislike white that much? I see it has nav, but is it that valuable to you to trade off years + miles?

I never had a black vehicle until I bought my 2012 F150 several years ago. I used to 'envy' people with clean black cars because they usually looked good, until you walk up to them and look a little closer---swirl marks, dust, etc! I'll never buy another black vehicle again. Impossible to keep clean, especially if it's your daily driver and it's not garaged.

FWIW, in the Philadelphia area, I'm pricing 2014's w/nav, w/BSM, w/lux package, with heated wheel, with LESS than 36k miles, asking anywhere from $25k to $28k. Some certified, some not, some at non-Lexus dealers, but the more expensive ones are at the Lexus dealers. Is a L/Certified vehicle that important to you? It doesn't sound as if there are any major problems these guys are experiencing on the 2013-2015 lineup.

bostonsnow

Consider the factors that others have said. I'll just comment on negotiation based on my experience and reading comments:
Its very hard to negotiate on a CPO. You can try, but its commonly reported that they dont come down much at all (I got $500 off on my 2005 that I got CPO)
Buying a non CPO would give you more wiggle room, especially from a non lexus dealership who probably really want to move that car.
Having CPO can bring some obvious peace of mind though, so deliberate whether its worth it to you. However, the 2013 non-CPO has some warranty coverage on it, so you would be protected if you discover any issues soon after buying.

lesz

I think that depends on the pricing strategy of the particular dealer, and that strategy can vary from one dealer to another.

The only CPO vehicle that I've bought was a 2006 ES, and I was able to negotiate a discount of about $3000 off of the advertised price.

Also, I think that the ability to negotiate a discount can vary depending on the inventory situation of the dealer and how long the car has been in their inventory. I've been monitoring the CPO inventories for the ES on the websites of a couple of dealers, and I've been doing so for a couple of months. What I've seen is that, when they first take a car in, the CPO price seems to be somewhat inflated. My assumption is that they are taking a chance that someone will pay that inflated price but that they are also leaving some room for discounting if they need to do so to move the vehicle. I've also noticed that, after that initial inflated price is posted, every couple of weeks, they lower the advertised price by anywhere from $500 to as much as $2000. I'm also confident that, if a dealer has several CPO cars that are from the same vintage and similarly equipped, they are going to be more likely to negotiate to reduce what is excess inventory.

Maljunulo

I paid $27,500 for a 2013 CPO with just under 28,000 miles about a month ago, and I think I got a good deal.

Navigation, Luxury, and so on, and it is impeccable, except for the fact that it looks as if the previous owner used the right side wheels as curb feelers.

I'm delighted.

PAcommuter

I find this hilarious as I thought the same thing about my right side wheels. In fact I also have a few scrapes on the left wheels too! IDK I'm so paranoid about my wheels, that I will pull up aout 18 inches away from the curb,put the car in reverse and re-align myself so I've got my 6 inches from the curb.

LouG

Granted I've never purchased a CPO vehicle before, I was under the impression that a CPO car has gone through a reconditioning process. Wouldn't a CPO car have "new" looking wheels....?

bostonsnow

$27K seems right in line for a good shape CPO around that age and mileage

For the lexus CPO, they usually will change out the tires at that age if they are pretty worn, and also things like battery . However, if wheels are scraped up, they would have to change out the wheels, adding to their cost . I suppose it depends how scraped up they are, and if the dealer is motivated to change them. A customer could always make a deal and make a change of wheels part of the deal....
on my 4th Gen ES I used to be guilty of this curb feeling. My right side rims got quite scraped up. But, now with the parking assist cameras, I'm making it a point to never do it with my 6th Gen....

lesz

I believe that there are CPO guidelines with regard to what reconditioning/replacement needs to be done to certify a car. For example, I believe that the tires are replaced only if the remaining tread does not meet some basic threshold, which I believe is more than 5/32 of an inch. Similarly, batteries are replaced only if testing reveals that their output falls below some threshold level. With regard to repairs, I believe that there is some latitude. I've seen CPO vehicles, for example, with small dents like the kind that would be caused by hail or a door from another car. While those kinds of dents could easily have been repaired with paintless dent removal, I've seen CPO cars for which those repairs haven't been done. So, it doesn't surprise me that wheel damage would not be dealt with unless it somehow had an effect on the actual functioning of the wheels.

The bottom line is that CPO does not necessarily mean "like new".

pab12

>Wouldn't a CPO car have "new" looking wheels....?

Not necessarily, a CPO car will probably show the expected wear of a car with it's mileage. What CPO does is extend the warranty for a period. Meaning that warranty issues will be covered but wear issues, like small dents and scratched wheels wouldn't be covered.

The reasoning is, I believe, you saw the scratched wheels before you bought the car and they obviously didn't keep you from purchasing it...
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2

champppy

Thank you for the responses everyone.

I was highly interested in purchasing one a few days ago, but, since, I'm purchasing this for my mother, she saw a GS350 and loved it even more.

So now I'm looking at GS350's which are easily more expensive through my searches.

I'll take the advice and use it for purchasing a GS350, thank you everyone so much for your time!!