crichnikov

Last time I had routine maintenance, the dealer set the pressure to 41 psi and the car rode like a rock. Unbelievable how uncomfortable it was. I let the air back down to 33psi cold and it is much better. Has the luxury car side to side sway on some bumps not all. But not anywhere close to the same as my Grandpa's 1989 Cadillac Brougham, that was a true luxury car! No bumps at all. Any up and down motion went sideways so to speak. It had this ridiculous system where there was an electronically activated counterweight that would move when the passengers sat in the car so that the ride could be perfectly balanced.

bostonsnow

re "Back breaking" - that is too extreme a comment about the ES. The IS-F or something being back breaking - thats a different question. However I do agree with the overall theme of the comment/thread, which is that the 6th Gen ES (at least my hybrid 300h is what I can speak of) does ride firmer and less luxuriously than my 4th Gen did. Consumer reports reviews seem to agree with this overall feeling

The 6th Gen is not super harsh or back breaking, but it is firmer and more tightened down than I would like it, and I would prefer it to be softer like the 4th Gen was.

Steve mentions a lot of it may be wheels/tires/pressure. I'm not sure if that is 100% of the explanation. The 6th Gen ES comes only in 17 inch wheels. My 2005 4th Gen had 16 inch wheels. I have the same Michelin tire that I used to have on my 4th Gen. I have dropped the tire pressure down to 30 psi cold, which is what I used to do on my 4th Gen. This helped ever so slightly, but even then it drives firmer than my 4th Gen. So the only difference now is 1 inch of wheel size, 17 inch wheels vs 16 inch. I don't think that fully explains the difference. I think the suspension setup has purposely been firmed up a bit with the newer generation.

Personally I preferred the softer ride of my 4th Gen. By no means was it like a super soft sofa going down the freeway, like a 1970s american car would be. Although, as the car aged and the springs softened, it was getting a bit too floaty than desired. But overall, when in earlier years, it had the perfect feel. Now the 6th gen ES has a firmer than perfect feel in my opinion. But oh well. Other than this its a great car. In the future, I think I may consider going to LS (assuming that does not get firmed up in the 2018). Or maybe a Genesis. But lets see. I Will probably drive this ES300h at least 3-5 more years though. Once my son is driving age, we will see - maybe he can take this ES over, and I'll get an LS! Or if Lexus is making every model firm in the future, I'll go outside lexus.

I had also considered the RX. The latest generation RX also drives much more firmly in my test drives than the previous generations did, which were as cush as a ride as one could get in the group of comparative SUVs that I test drove (test drove a bunch in 2013 with that generation, then recently test drove the new RX). If I were to want an RX, i would NOT buy the new current generation. I would instead get a pre owned of the previous generation. This is considering ride, not even getting to the looks/styling....

SW17LS

Also bear in mind that the 300h may be firmer than the 350, I have read somewhere that the suspension components have different pair numbers.

As foer the RX, personally I think the latest 4RX rides better than the previous RX. I recently had one as a loaner and I was surprised how nicely it rode. I'm sure it depends on whether it has the 18s or the 20s (my loaner had the 18s which have very high profile tires).

peteharvey

Surprize surprize. Did you know the 2016 4.5GS Refresh with 18" rides more compliantly, with less shock, yet superior handling than the 2016 6.5ES Refresh, and the 6.5ES Refresh rides fine on 17".
It's such a complicated world.

SW17LS

You're saying the refresh GS rides more compliantly than the refresh ES? I can't agree with that unless the ES has 18s. Then maybe.

peteharvey

Previously, I thought ES was much softer than GS.

However with the latest refreshed models, on the dreaded Dunlop Sport Maxx 050 235/45R18, the new GS Refresh actually rides more compliantly than the Refreshed ES on 17" Yokohamas.
I was shocked too.
The GS is in particular more "isolated" in its ride, maybe through softer bushings, or superior bushings on its suspension subframe - the bushings on the suspension subframe are called "mounts", and are often fluid filled with oil.
Refreshed GS may also have more sound insulation.
Those Sport Maxx 050's have a stiff carcass, so does give sharper turn-in & response.

The ES Refreshed 17" Yokohamas were surprisingly thumpy & noisy.
The ES was certainly floatier due to softer shock absorbers.
Floatiness is due to low frequency oscillation of the car's body, hence the feeling of comfort.
When a car has a controlled ride, the frequency of oscillation is very high, hence the uncomfortable feeling.

Test drive at your local dealership...
.

SW17LS

The GS has a more "refined" ride. I think at speed it rides better, its more solid and "glassy". I agree that by comparison the ES feels floaty and less sophisticated at speed. On the highway for sure I give the nod to the GS. I also agree that on the road its quieter, at low speeds though you can tell the GS is more firmly sprung for sure. Speed bumps in parking lots, potholes on a neighborhood street the ES handles better over.

Even comparing my 13 GS to the ES then and even the refresh ES I was surprised how satisfied I was with how the GS rode. I was really worried about it since I am not a sporty person, I like a great riding car but I had no reason to be.

bostonsnow

True, I did read some other threads commenting on the different suspension of the ES300h. Perhaps something to do with having the relatively heavy battery in the back.
I dont believe I have actually driven a non-hybrid 6th Gen ES350.

BradTank

I'm in the market for this generation ES, and I have to say after having one for the day, I can't believe how ridiculously firm it rides. I had a ES300 and currently drive an LS430 with 17" rims. I loved the ride of both. The new ES I was surprised was so taut.

I'm sure some of the problem was the 18" rims that were on the vehicle, but still, why on Earth did Lexus make this vehicle have such a taut ride? Every little expansion joint just boomed through the car. They have the GS for people that want that "Autobahn" ride. The ES was always supposed to be a softer riding luxury car. Consumer Reports also dinged it for its ride quality.

Has anyone put 16" rims on one? I drove back to back a Camry and ES, and the Camry had a perfect ride and was on 16" rims.

lexus789

I think the ES ride is already softer than other car in same class.
The riding is very comfort and feel soft/smooth when hit the bumpy road, perhaps your car's shock absorber is damaged.
I have experience with same problem that my previous honda accord suddenly got stiffer ride than normal, the car just back from workshop and after checked it with dealer technician , found the car has lifted to change some parts and the shock stretched to its maximum working length when lifted and become damaged.
So i replaced the shock with new one and car riding back to normal.
maybe my experience can help......

SW17LS

What air pressure was the ES running on? I would try one with 17s and make sure the tires aren't overinflated. 16s shouldn't be necessary, the 17s have plenty of sidewall and my 2010 ES350 rode fine on 17s compared to my 03 on 16s.

BradTank

The 2010 though is not this generation, so it's not an apple to apples comparison. I also owned an ES previously and it rode incredibly luxurious (might be why Lexus sold so many sedans back then as opposed to now) but it's simply not the same car.

Regarding air pressure, I know you can decrease it to get a softer ride, but I'm sure it was close enough in spec that it was not the main issue. I just know later I bought the Consumer Reports and they also dinged the car for the firm ride quality. People are also complaining here about it, etc. It's simply not disputed that Lexus firmed things up. I've owned 4 Lexus, so I feel I have a pretty good grasp on knowing the range of ride quality. They clearly moved the car to firmer handling and many of their core customers feel alienated.

I get that not everyone wants a luxury car that's actually "luxurious", some want a tight ride, which is fine, but Lexus makes the GS and IS for those customers. The ES was always a sort of Japanese Buick or Cadillac, and they always sold a boatload of them that way. Why change what works?

I specifically go to Lexus and not BMW because I want a comfortable cruiser.

TechNut

I agree that Lexus firmed the suspensions up. I saw the same thing with the RX lineup. However, I happen to like the ride. It is firm and comfortable without being harsh (from the perspective of 17" rims). It meets my preferences and expectations very well. If I didn't like the ride, I probably wouldn't have gotten past the test drive, but I certainly wouldn't still be driving it if I remained dissatisfied. It certainly rides nicer than our former Prius or our current NX so I am very satisfied. Clearly I come from a different perspective and am comparing to different experiences. Others in this thread have suggested alternatives as there are many choices with softer rides. Unfortunately, without adjustable suspensions, there will never be a perfect balance that satisfies every potential buyer, and I imagine the trend to larger wheels complicates this for the designers.

The perfect car will be different for every one of us so all we can do is shop carefully and make our own evaluations after careful test drives.

SW17LS

I understand my 2010 ES was the previous generation, but I shopped heavily for a 2013 ES350 in 2012 when I was replacing it and drove many, when the tires are aired right, and the 2013 had 17s I thought they rode almost the same.

Dealers often have pressures WAY too high, I've seen them in the range of 50 PSI when they should be 33 per Lexus is why I asked. That has a profound impact on the ride. Before you write the car off you should drive it on 17s aired properly.

bostonsnow

I agree with you Brad. Now I have the latest gen ES300h, and possibly the hybrid is firmer than the 350. I dont know until I get a loaner 350 to compare. But I'm assuming they are similar. Given that, the new gen is firmer than older generations. I have 17 inch wheels. Have lowered pressure to 28-30 with only minimal change. I doubt going from 17 inch to 16 would make that much difference. My 4th Gen ES was on 16 inch wheels but I doubt just the 1 inch wheel size was the difference - it was a softer luxurious car. I have seen what Consumer reports have written and I agree with them. For the latest Generation ES, its a firmer ride, and yet not a sophisticated one, so it feels more like a standard family car like camry or accord, not like the previous luxurious ride of the ES. But if you are ok with standard family car ride, then all is good.
However, the somewhat firm ride (although not horribly firm) is probably my only complaint about the car. I love virtually every other aspect about it. So I'll over look it and happily drive it for a few to several more years. Then maybe pony up to the level of an LS or similar.
if you otherwise like the Es and can live with the firmer ride like I do, its still a great car. If you can't live with the firm ride - look elsewhere. Although, i would say, in the price range, its not easy finding better. Other manufacturers have also firmed up the ride. Reviews say that even Merc have firmed up the E series ride in the new version (which previously was notoriously a soft riding car).