LexBob2

The good news is there are a lot of different choices from other manufacturers. As you indicated, MB offers some attractive alternatives with their sedans, as does Audi, BMW, Volvo (making good strides lately) etc..

SW17LS

There's no need for two suspensions on the ES, the car as it is is quite soft.

You should drive a Genesis G80.

peteharvey

The current 6.5ES suspension is fine to me too.
If Akio wants the ES to be firm, then a better option for him would be to offer two different suspension settings by simply changing the front coils and front shockies - is much better than only offering 18" wheels on lower profile tires.

I drove a Hyundai Genesis G80 late in 2014.
It has lovely ride and refinement.
However, it was a trifle bland, while too huge for me.

SW17LS

This ES was already designed under his influence. The 18s are not the only wheel, they're an option.

The G80 is very similar in size to the ES350.

peteharvey

Unfortunately, the Hyundai Genesis G80's fuel economy was also not to my liking.

SW17LS

The 3.8 V6 G80 is 1 MPG less than your GS w It also takes regular fuel which makes up for any fuel economy difference in the GS which requires premium and then some. So economy is actually better than your GS

peteharvey

Somehow, the whole Genesis G80 package doesn't jel with me.
Neither does 6.5ES.

Presently all I can do is stick with my 4GS & turn up the Mark Levinson to hide the creaks & rattles.

Maybe 7ES & 5GS may give me some respite.

Mike728

My ES rides perfect for my likes. I hated the floaty ride of the boats that were out in the '70's and '80's. A good test drive will give you enough knowledge to know if the car is right for you. Did you not test drive your GS prior to purchasing, or were you under the impression that it was going to soften up? Oh, and WTH is a "shockie"?

SW17LS

I was resisting the urge to comment on the use of the term "shockie" lol

peteharvey

I did test plenty of time, but I guess the dealer takes you on his smooth course.
Even Tesla takes you on their course.

That's what happens when aspect ratios fall below 50% to favor handling.
50% is a 50/50 balance.
While the traditional profiles above 50% favored the ride.
That's why the 6ES has tried so hard to keep the tread width to just 215 mm and the rim diameter to just 17" so that the aspect ratio can be 50/50 balanced at 50%.

A shockie is a shock absorber, or damper to be correct.

However, even right now, I'm in no man's land, with no real place to go.
Because a car is the sum of its parts; a car isn't just the softness, quietness and creak/rattle free.
A car is also about styling, chassis, materials, and build quality etc.
Just have to wait for 7ES and 5GS.

However, therein lies the inherent side effects of using firm coil springs and low profile tires for pin sharp steering, like creaks and rattles etc...

SW17LS

You just bought the wrong car for your needs, it's as simple as that.

It's not a problem for people for whom that car is not the wrong car. I drove that car for 3 years and enjoyed it very much, my business partner has a 15 F Sport and likes it very much.

The creaks and rattles aren't because of a firm ride, they're because their build quality isn't what it once was unfortunately. Plenty of firm vehicles out there that don't suffer from creaks and rattles.

"Shockie" is not a real term. The only person I've ever heard use it is you. The short term for a shock absorber is "shock".

peteharvey

If I bought the wrong car for me, then it's simply a matter of selling and buying the right car.
However, it is not as simple as that, because for me, there is presently no ideal car, and there never has been.
Over the past 30 years, each car has its good points and bad points; there has never been any perfection, and nor will there ever be any.

However, for the OP and his 2015 6ES, some time ago I did some research on the then 2013-16 original 6ES, and there were quite a few complaints concerning the ride.
Like I've said many times before, I've never tested the original 6ES; I've only tested the current facelifted 6.5ES, and I find the current ride fine.
But that is one of the side effects of firmer coils combined with low profile tires, esp those below a 50% aspect ratio.

Creaks and rattles are due to a combination of: firm springing, low profile tires, torsional rigidity/bending stiffness, and build quality.
My old 3.5GS has poor torsional rigidity and bending stiffness, but it does not creak and rattle as much, but when we do reach its bump stops, you can tell that the old 3.5GS's body structure is much less substantial.

I wouldn't get too mean on terminology:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=what++does+shockies+mean&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=what+does+shockies+mean&sc=0-23&sk=&cvid=50134858358F4559B26AABED44F29E90

SW17LS

I don't personally feel much difference between the 6ES and 6.5ES from a ride standpoint, most of the difference in feel comes from the better interior quality which makes it feel like a better car. Most of the complaints you get about ride come from owners with cars on 18" wheels. One of the issues (and this isn't exclusively a Lexus issue) is that in order to get the excellent UL package in the ES you have to accept the 18" wheels.

I'm surprised that you feel your 3GS has less rattles than your 4GS, the 3GS was notorious for rattles and creaks. my 4GS had one buzz/rattle in the console and that was it.

Have you ever considered an LS? I know its a big jump in cost, but for my desires (which seem similar to yours) its the most ideal setup I've found in a Lexus. The ES rides nicely, its a great value but the interior fittings and some exterior fittings feel cheap. The GS feels substantial and expensive everywhere but its too firm for me overall (although I like it, my 4GS may be my favorite Lexus I've had). The LS has the expensive, substantial feel that the ES lacks and delivers the best most refined ride.

In that price class the E300 has the best ride (I haven't driven the new 5 Series), but its small and of course theres the 4cyl. The G80 I think is the overall best feel, it feels and looks expensive, has a great refined ride, but I agree with you that the interior isn't up to par with the GS (it does best the ES).

If you have interest in an LS, now would be a great time to get your hands on an outgoing LS460...

peteharvey

The 3GS is tricky to understand.
It is basically an old platform that lacks torsional rigidity and bending stiffness, and is very softly sprung for a very compliant ride.
If I drive on a reasonably smooth road, the 3GS suspension is at its element; it is compliant and absorbs the bumps with no creaks nor rattles.
However, if I pound the same bump at high speeds, the short suspension travel will reach its bump stops, causing a crash, and a noticeably weak loose rattly body in torsional rigidity and bending stiffness.

My biggest Achilles heel with the 3GS was the styling on the nose.
My second biggest gripe with the 3GS was the lack of rigidity in the body structure.

Me? I didn't have problems with interior space, nor the small trunk, nor the small trunk opening, nor the lack of steering precision from the jelly soft coil springs, but I can understand that other people had issues here.

Yes, my dealer has also recommended that I try the LS.
I will have a look into it.

I've only had the Cinturato P7 All Season Plus for six days, but it is so much softer than the OEM Sport Maxx 050, when both are compared brand new.
At 10/10th, it probably only has 9/10th of the grip of the Dunlop Sport Maxx.
It will be interesting to see if the Cinturatos become harsh and noisy as the tread wears down, because the Sport Maxx certainly became both harsh and noisy as the tread wore down.

SW17LS

Oh yeah, the P7s are much softer...

You really should look at the LS.