nelsona

Hello,

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but out of curiosity, if you found a very good deal on a certified 2014 ES 350 including:

1. UL package
2. Mark Levinson
3. BSM / Rear Cross Traffic Alert
4. Intuitive Parking
5. Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
6. Lane Departure Alert
7. 18" rims (with Michelins)
8. Panoramic Sunroof
9. Power trunk
0. Heated wood and leather trim steering wheel + shift ****
1. Rain sensing wipers, wheel locks, cargo net, etc

...for $31,000 (with 20K miles), but the dealer wouldn't allow you to take the vehicle to a 3rd party mechanic, would you walk away?

I'm not entirely sure if the dealer is hiding anything wrong with the vehicle, as the dealer claims to be a high volume seller (who probably doesn't want to put too much effort into selling a vehicle as they claim that their profit margins are slim). Whether that's true or not is difficult to say, but I did notice that the price for the vehicle is unusually lower than other dealers in the area (by about $3,500).

This seems to be the case for quite a few of their other CPO vehicles (ex. a 2014 LS 460L with everything except the UL package going for a bit less than 55K whereas other dealers sell the same vehicle for around $57,500 - $58,000).

Personally the dealer seems more lazy than malicious in their insistence that the vehicle not be taken to a 3rd party mechanic. For example, the CarFax for the vehicle showed no maintenance history whatsoever for the vehicle. I assumed this meant that the owner never maintained the vehicle.

When I asked the dealer for a maintenance history for the vehicle, they never responded back with a printout or email of the vehicle's maintenance history (after sending 5 emails on the matter). However after accessing the maintenance history from Lexus' internal site, I was able to see that the vehicle had indeed been maintained properly (the 5K, 10K, 15K and even 20K services were completed on the vehicle).

Furthermore, CarFax claimed that an open recall existed for the vehicle, but once again, the dealer performed the recall for the vehicle (as well as detailed the vehicle).

Lastly, I notice no issues with the vehicle (nothing had to be replaced or was damaged) from its general history.

So everything seems legit and with the remaining balance of the basic warranty + 2 years unlimited mileage of the extended warranty, there's the peace of mind that if something does come up, I'll be covered.

But still, it doesn't seem very Lexus-like that I've had to send multiple emails (6 in total) plus also make a phone call to the general sales manager as well as access the vehicle history from Lexus' internal site myself in order to get a good idea of the history of the vehicle (something that could've taken the dealer no more than 5 minutes to do).

Any thoughts?

Thank you,
Nelson

LexBob2

With the uncertainty about the CPO vehicle as well as the dealers attitude, have you considered using your budget ($31k?) and buy something brand new with full factory warranty? At that price point there are a lot of very good nicely equipped (non Lexus) cars available. This could help ease the doubt.

bc6152

I noticed that this question was previously posted and answered. I would think by now you'd have an answer from the dealer and made a decision. Seems like they won't budge on the 3rd. party inspection so you have to make a decision as to if you want the car.

lesz

If I was considering buying a used car from a private party, I might find some value in having the car checked out by a mechanic. On the other hand, if I was buying the car from a reputable dealer and if the car still had 2 years left on the bumper-to-bumper warranty and 4 years left on the power train warranty plus the CPO warranty, I'm not sure that I'd worry about having the car checked out by an independent mechanic.

Further, if it was me, I would consider that, with 2 years left on the bumper-to-bumper warranty and 4 years left on the power train warranty, the amount of additional coverage from the CPO warranty is quite minimal, and I would try to negotiate a better price in exchange for giving up the CPO vehicle status. My understanding is that dealers are not supposed to do that, but I know that many are willing to do so, and, with that much of the factory warranties still left, I would be happy to give up the CPO warranty if it saved me some on the price of the vehicle.

All of that said, I would hope that there are other people at the dealership who are more invested in customer service than the person that you have been dealing with.

JDR76

The ES, especially with that kind of mileage, is a fairly low risk purchase. Given that it is being sold by a Lexus dealer and with a CPO warranty, the lack of a 3rd party would probably not stop me from buying it.

However...

I feel that a 3rd party inspection is not an unreasonable request, and nor is the request for a service history. From what I am reading here, it does not seem like this particular dealer is working very hard for your business. If it were me, I think I would look for a car at a dealer who is willing to make some effort to work with me.

Talinder

I've read about Lexus cars being CPO and been in accidents. While I would generally consider risking it, I'd just be turned off by someone not willing to consider an extremely reasonable request in the car buying business.

I was dealing with a car broker once who refused to sell me a car because although it wasn't noted on the Carfax, he found the service history to point the vehicle having been in an accident.

The fact that you had to do so much work to get the vehicle history and the lower than normal price has given you pause and rightfully so. Carfax doesn't show everything. I'd go with your gut and give a pass on this vehicle. It's not like ES's are difficult to find. Leases are ending like crazy right now. Don't give your money to someone who doesn't want it.

nelsona

@Everyone: Thank you for your input.

@LexBob2: I've thought about a Camry or Toyota Avalon.

A Camry with a V6, leather, blind-spot monitor, etc would come out to around 33 - 35K new (which after adding tax + registration would come out to a out the door price of about 36 - 38K).

I also looked into an Avalon but heard many complaints about the harsher ride + lacking interior (compared to a fully loaded ES).

@bc6152: I'm not trying to spam the forum, though if it seems like it, I apologize. All I'm really trying to get is as many informed opinions as possible as purchasing a vehicle (whether new or used) from a dealer has been a new endeavor for me, and I don't yet feel very comfortable about it.

@lesz: I've tried to negotiate a better price with the dealer but given the low price of the vehicle compared to KBB and Edmunds, they haven't budged.

Removing the CPO warranty might be a good option. I'll ask them about it and see what they say.

@JDR76: The dealer did offer me the option to pay a $275.00 "cooling off" fee for 2 days, where I had the option of returning the car for a full refund if I found any problems with it.

That being said, they required that I purchase the vehicle. So basically I'd have to pay 275 + the price of the vehicle to be given a two day window in which to return the vehicle if I found any problems.

That being said, I was told by a mechanic buddy who worked at a dealership that either state or federal law allows anyone to return their vehicle for a full refund if they wish (though dealers likely don't want you to know that).

I'll have to double-check that though as I'm not 100% certain.

@Talinder: I might be able to wait a bit more, but in all honesty, I haven't seen anything near this price point (for everything it comes equipped with) from any other dealer, and I've been looking off and on for nearly 3 months.

So though 2015 (which I'd prefer) will soon be flooding the market, I'd likely have to pay substantially more for a similarly equipped 2015 ES (though I could get lucky).

Thank you,
Nelson

12jimmyjam

Pretty terrible all around for a Lexus dealer.

azipod

Businesses tend to use a lot of "blanket policies" when they do business. They have a certain rule or policy and they stick to it without putting "a human" being the decision. If the dealer is a high volume dealership, they may just don't have the resources and time to cater to individual requests.

Some customers will view this as a complete turn off and walk. However, sometimes business are just like that. Ever tried calling an airline to switch flights? You see what I mean.

That said, is it possible for you to bring a mechanic to the dealer and have them put the vehicle up on a rack for inspection?

nelsona

@azipod: I'll check with the dealer, but the way the General Sales Manager made it sound, the mechanic would only be able to look at the car at the lot (and not on the dealers rack).

But I'll ask and see what they say as they might agree.

Thank you,
Nelson

azipod

The more I think about this, its probably unlikely that they will let you put it up on a rack for inspection. They don't generally allow customers in the service area.... so its unlikely they will allow your mechanic to go in there and actually be underneath a car looking at it. But you never know until you ask.

I think your request is reasonable, it is unfortunate that they will not let your car get inspected at a shop of your choice. But like I said, they may not have the resources to handle all of this. Imagine what would happen if every customer wanted their cars inspected outside of the dealership -- including the NEW ones!!! You see how all of a sudden they went from a car dealership trying to sell cars to something else.

IMHO, the truth is that most people will buy cars without getting an outside inspection. And the dealer knows they can sell the car so they're not going to go through the hassle trying to make an accomodation. Perhaps your best bet is to convince the dealer that you are absolutely serious about the car and maybe they will make an exception. Of course this doesn't help you if you're planning to negotiate on price --- if you're still interested in the car after an inspection the dealer obviously knows the car meets your satisfaction -- they'll probably wont budge on price at that point.

Good luck. The car sounds like a good deal. I would buy it if you think this particular car is what you want. Dont lose sleep over "what if this, what if that..." Life is all about uncertainty. If we all had crystal ***** then we would all be billionaires!

Mike728

If you're that concerned about getting an independent to look it over, just take it to one during a test drive. If they don't allow you to test drive it on your own, then there's something up. Either they don' don't think you're going to buy, or they have something to hide.

nelsona

@Everyone: Thank you once again for all your input.

@Mike728: I had asked them to take the vehicle to an independent during my test drive and they said no.

It could be that they have nothing to hide, but unfortunately this seems like too much of a red flag to overlook.

@azipod: You're right but 34,500 out the door for what could be a problematic vehicle (though probably won't) is something that I want to avoid at all costs (which is why I chose a Lexus over every other car make - I want the Lexus reliability above all else).

What really pisses me off about the whole situation is that I've been looking for an ES for more than 3 months and now that I've found one within my budget, the dealer is doing nearly everything it can to turn me away.

Nelson

lesz

In spite of the fact that the sales personnel at the dealership doesn't seem to be as interested in being cooperative or in communicating as much as you would like, my advice would still be, if you think you have found the car that you want and if the price is right, to buy the car.

As I said in an earlier post, regardless of whether you take the car to be checked out by an independent mechanic, you still have 2 years of the bumper-to-bumper warranty, and, if there are any issues, they are likely to become apparent long before that warranty expires. Plus, you still have 4 years left on the power train warranty and you still have the CPO warranty.

There are times when we can be victims of paralysis by analysis and over think things. I've bought about 4 dozen vehicles in my lifetime. Typically, I will complete the purchase of a vehicle within about 24 hours of the time when I started to think about buying a new vehicle. I'll start by doing a bit of internet research about pricing of the vehicle that I'm interested in buying. Then, I'll use the internet to check out the availability of the vehicle that I'm interested in, and I'll do some email negotiations (phone negotiations in the old days) with 2 or 3 or 4 dealers. When I choose a dealer to actually visit, I figure that, if I spend more than 30 minutes doing final negotiations, I've done something wrong and I've started to waste my valuable time. I also figure that, within about 10 minutes of sitting down with a sales person and starting to do those final negotiations, I know whether we are going to be able to make a deal, and I'm certain that a skilled sales person also knows within about 10 minutes whether he/she is going to be able to close a deal.

Out of those 4 dozen or so vehicles that I've bought in my lifetime, I'm sure that there have been a couple that I've regretted buying, but they have been the exceptions, and, even in those couple of cases that resulted in regret, I'm not sure that spending weeks or months at the car buying process would have changed the results. Further, with regard to saving money,I think that it would have been unlikely that I could have done any better than I did with regard to pricing by spending more time, and my time is worth enough to me that I refuse to spend weeks or months on the car buying process.

Again, if you have found the car that you want and if the price is right, don't over-think the situation, and just buy the car. You don't always have to like the people that you are doing business with. You are buying a car from them. You are not marrying them and committing to a life-long relationship with them.

LexBob2

Good advice here. Plus, if and when the back and forth between dealer and prospective buyer goes on and on they know that a sale isn't likely, and won't spend much time with that client.