rob stolen

iTrader: (2)

Hello,

I'm in the market for a new car and I'm considering the new ES. I haven't yet decided between the 350 or 300h yet. I really, really like the all black glass pano roof of the 350 (especially contrasting a light silver or white colored car; just looks so sharp & aggressive IMO), more hp, better looking darker interior wood, more trunk space (why no 60/40? that's really odd for Lexus to not offer), and smoother engine and transmission of the 350 model, but I just can't ignore the 35-40mpg's of the 300h hybrid. My sensible side is telling me that I don't really need all those things and the more efficient power plant is a more sound choice. But I'm not sure just yet.

While I wrestle with the dilemma above, I do have a concern about the ES itself. I haven't test driven the vehicle yet, so I wanted to ask forum members that own the car if the ES drives real heavy and bloated or does it still feel somewhat nimble for such a large car. In other words, does the car feel like a boat taking turns, with a lazy turning radius, and overall does it just feel/drive like an old Cadillac, so to speak?

The reason I ask is b/c I'm coming form much smaller cars (IS350, G37 coupe, Acura RDX). And I do realize and understand it's all a matter of perspective, but for those that came from smaller cars like me, was the ES a big change for you? It should be noted that I did spend several days in a 2008 (or 09 maybe) ES350 (dealer loaner while my IS350 was getting the valve spring recall) and I really did NOT like it. The car felt like a grandpa mobile (no offense) and just turning the car felt like I was guiding a Brougham or something. But I read that the new ES is tuned differently and more sporty with a somewhat more taut steering/suspension. Is that really the case with this new model versus the old one?

It should also be noted I'm probably not in the typical age bracket for the ES and do plan to do suspension and wheels mods to the car. Something similar to the link below (but I would probably want lighter forged wheels closer to the 29lbs of the stock 18's) to maintain gas mileage and less stress on the suspension.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...-thread-6.html

To be quite honest, I would have never considered the ES as my next potential car had it not been for the new 2013 styling. It looks pretty good. There doesn't seem to be too many modified ES's (even in this forum, which I can understand due to the typical historical age demographics of ES buyers), but I think this new model may reach outside the usual crowd who purchase these cars. Which explains why I'm here contemplating buying one.

At any rate, my fault for the long post. I would love to hear any feedback from forum members. I've already gone through the first 20 pages of this ES forum and have learned a lot about the car. I think I'm dead set on the UL pkg in Starfire Pearl White, Silver Lining, or maybe Nebula gray with the black interor. My favorite feature is the black glass panoramic roof, and it would have been perfect if it were offered on the 300h , but sadly it's not.

But I am concerned about the size of the ES and how big it drives, especially since this car is now based on the Avalon platform instead of the Toyota Camry. However, this time around for my next vehicle, I am admittedly looking for more of a cruiser-type ride that's more about comfort, but I don't want it to be too big with a big tradeoff in driving dynamics.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

txes

Anybody thinking about buying a car should test drive one first.

John

lesz

I'll agree with John and say that you really need to drive the car yourself.

That said, my guess would be that the ES is not going to be the car for you. The current ES might be a bit tighter than previous generations of ES, but the ride quality and handling are still pretty much the same. If you didn't like the ride and handling of the previous generation of ES, you are not likely to like this one either.

A decade ago, I owned an Infiniti G35. While the ES doesn't handle like an old Cadillac or Buick, it doesn't handle like the G35 or a GS or a BMW 3 or 5 Series, either.

I'm not a fan of buying a vehicle that doesn't really meet my needs and, then, doing extensive mods to make it come closer to what I should have bought in the first place. Generally speaking, the main thing that those extensive mods accomplishes is to significantly reduce the resale value of the vehicle because, while they might have strong appeal to a limited audience, the typical buyer will immediately dismiss any thought of buying a vehicle with extensive mods. Thus, you reduce the pool of potential buyers, and that can only reduce what you are likely to get for the vehicle at resale or trade-in time.

While the ES was designed in a way that meets my needs almost perfectly, I accept the fact that there are others whose needs would better be met by another vehicle, and my guess would be that you are one of those people.

Mike728

^^ What he said.

Test drive it with 18" wheels, which also means, not the 300h. It does not drive at all like the previous gen with the 18" wheel option.

lesz

While I agree that the 18 inch wheels would make a considerable difference in ride quality, even with the 18" wheels (and possible suspension mods), it would still be a front-wheel drive vehicle, and it still won't have the handling capabilities of a rear-wheel drive car. For me, a front-wheel drive vehicle meets my needs perfectly, but, if handling capabilities were at the same priority level that they were for me a couple of decades ago, I know that the ES would fall short of what I wanted regardless of the wheels and any mods that I might do to the vehicle.

jonmanch

I have owned two G35X's and one G37X. I loved those cars. I now own an ES 300h and love it. Sure, it does not handle the same way as the G's and does not have the same pick up as the G's, but I am impressed on the pickup of the 300h. I live in the NYC suburbs and commute to Manhattan daily and find that the pick up and handling of the car fit in nicely with my environment. Unfortunately for me, there are no canyons for me to drive through except for downtown Manhattan. I still drive almost as fast around the same curves I take on my commute home. The handling is not the same but better than I really expected. I love that I get between 35 and 41 mpg on regular gas while my G's were lucky to get between 18 and 21 mpg on 89 or premium.

My wife loves the ES. She always felt that the G's were too tight/small for the passenger, and she could never get comfortable. She loves riding in the ES. Also, the ride is smoother and quieter but not like a Cadillac.

Trunk space is about the same as the G but configured a little differently. So far no problem with the trunk, and we have taken two trips with it so far.

If you want better handling, look at the GS or one of the remaining 2013 G37X's, but the Infiniti's won't have all the bells and whistles. Infiniti is saving them for the Q50 which has not gotten good reviews. Seems the G is/was a better car. Check the new Consumer Reports that I got in the mail yesterday.

Good luck on your hunt. Let us know your final decision.

BTW, I was at the dealership the other day to get my key fob deprogrammed not to open the windows, and my salesman told me that they are totally sold out of all their 2013 ES's, so there may not be much choice in December. Also, he told me that the 2014's are about $50-60 more on a lease for the same 2013 car.

All that being said, I agree with lesz and John that you need to test drive the cars. As you already know, no pano roof on the hybrid.

Good luck

TomMartin

@jonmanch...curious how you compare the new ES with the "feel" of your previous G cars on something basic like a cloverleaf? Does the ES seem to "nudge" you to slow down noticeably as you traverse a cloverleaf...much different than your felt in the G cars you owned?

While not looking for a "canyon carver"...I would like to feel just a bit confident/aggressive in cloverleaf type environment...also in quick lateral moves in freeway driving. Those are typical instances where the proverbial older Cadillacs and Lincolns clearly demonstrated their "float" feeling. BTW...I AM confident the GS is NOT like the old cads etc. just want a feeling of wether you look at a cloverleaf as just a bit of fun...or does the ES "tell you"...better take it easy... Thanks Tom

jonmanch

I don't travel on as many clover leafs as you must, Tom, but I like to be somewhat aggressive going around highway accesses. The ES lets you know it is not a G37X, but its handling was not so passive. There are several curves on one of the parkways I drive home on, and I still take the curves at a lively pace but not quite as fast as in the G and find it acceptable. There are trade offs in life. Consider how many times you are going to be doing that though versus the rest of the way you are going to be driving. Perhaps my sports sedan days are over, but I really like my ES. Before Infiniti came out with the Q50, the G37X was a better car IMO than the GS that I test drove at the time I purchased my last G in 2010, and the Infiniti was substantially less expensive. The Q50 which is not as good a car as the G is now priced like the GS which will be good for Lexus.

I put on most of my mileage driving on expressways and highways, and I have not found the car to be a floater when changing lanes under any conditions so far. I find the ES responsive when changing lanes quickly to go around slower traffic while moving at speed. I have about 2400 miles on the car in 6 weeks time. I have owned two Cadillacs, and they did float. Not the same type of ride in the ES.

My only concern is how the car will handle in the snow. I have driven Quattro and AWD cars for 13 years, and this is going to be my first FWD car. I will see how it handles with the first snow storm.

TomMartin

Living in Minnesota winter driving is of concern. Currently have a 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser which will handle anything except if you try to go through snow and get the frame hung up so the tires are not on the ground...happened to me just one time

My wife drives a 2008 Accord with front wheel drive. The Accord seems just fine in snow. We obviously try to drive the LC whenever actual depth of snow begins to create issues. But for everyday driving the Accord seems fine. We do watch the tread on the front tires and don't try to get the last few miles out of each set of tire.

I have no particular concerns about ES front wheel drive...but would certainly get the AWD if I get a GS. Tom

jonmanch

Tom, I agree with you. We don't get the kind of snow you get in MN, but there are about 5-10 days where snow can be a hassle before the streets are really plowed. I figured I would gamble that the few snow days we have (prior to getting plowed) should not be that big an influence considering all of the other positive aspects of the car.

As I mentioned in a previous post, my wife who has not driven the car loves it. Also, the rear seat is really big and can accommodate tall adults. My adult children are each 6 feet tall and can sit comfortably in the back. Our other car is an Infiniti M35X (AWD) which used to be the car we used when traveling with more than three people for any length of time. My wife thinks the back seat of the ES is much bigger than her M's. My daughter agrees when she comes for a visit.

wasjr

Rob, From your post I doubt that the ES is for you. When I was looking for a replacement for my wife's Volvo S80 I looked hard at Infiniti as I could get Nissan family pricing as her brother works at the Nissan plant. I really liked the handling of the M and could get one close to the 300h price, but the ES better suited our needs (would have probably bought an M if we were 40). The G was too small for us. I would recommend you look at a used M or I believe Infiniti is going to keep the G for a couple of years at pricing below the Q50.

rob stolen

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, but I'm not a fan of the M and the G is dated. I'm also looking at Audi A6, 5 Series, as well as the newly refreshed E-Class. But if I opted for the Lexus ES, I would save several thousand and if I went for the hybrid, that car would be a very sound economical choice from a financial perspective including its very good reliability history. I'm somewhat leery of the potential problems that may arise from the other German offerings. But it's still very early in the car-buying process as I am just at the research stage at this point.


Thanks for the feedback, but I don't think springs and different wheels would be considered "extensive" modifications to the car. The ES doesn't really have a tremendous network of aftermarket support. I mean even the lowering springs would come from a 07-11 Toyota Camry (learned from here) as there are no aftermarket suspension components for the car, let alone any other real aftermarket components to begin with. Which makes perfect logical sense considering the historical demographics of ES buyers.

And most ppl who do any personalization to their cars typically put the car back to stock/oem before they sell or trade in their vehicles, unless they do really "extensive" mods like an aftermarket turbo or major body changes. But the Lexus ES doesn't have any of that. I guess a perception like the above is emblematic of a vehicle forum like the Lexus ES. Go figure. Even the folks at F10Post, Benzworld, MBWorld, Audiworld, etc, have extensive sections for vehicle personalization for the respective cars like the 5 Series, A6, and E-Class, which I've learned a great deal.

It's just not that big of a deal to be honest with you. Personalizing your vehicle to make it your own, so that it doesn't look like a carbon copy of every one you see on the road is NOT a one-way street.

In any event, thanks for the feedback. Obviously I do plan on driving the ES and the other vehicles before I make any buying decisions.