Neoxagon

They both come from the same mother ship. I don't think consumers can go wrong with either model. It's just going to come down to personal preference.

Although, the decibel measurement comparisons are quite intriguing!

Another Avalon video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IxIU9Wd_JI

Arty101

So what are the db's they're showing (idle and hwy), and from what source?

LexBob2

59.8 db's @ 70 mph cruise from Edmunds. For comparison Edmunds showed 61.6 db in a Bently GT and 60.9 in an Audi A8L.

I don't know if the average buyer could really tell the differences but those are the numbers.

Toys4RJill

I would be curious to know what the DB levels of the LS is? Anyone have a concrete source?

UTAS

Good point. Measured hair splitting here.

hpdnjc

I had my heart set on an Avalon hybrid (Touring) but the Toyota "mafia" in Houston wanted MSRP or above. I ended up contacting my previous Lexus sales person and the sales manager sold me almost exactly what I wanted at a little below invoice. i had high hopes on getting the Avalon but the dealerships wouldn't deal. This is the same group that forced me to get a 2010 Prius in Beaumont for the same reason. For me it is against my principles as a consumer to pay MSRP or above on a vehicle. I guess that is why I have never had a Toyota vehicle before the Prius. I have owned Honda, Mazda, Infiniti and Lexus. I should add dealing with a Lexus dealership vs Toyota is a world of difference despite it being the same overall company. And I will still get my Lexus serviced at either a Toyota dealership or an independent shop owned by a guy that use to work for Lexus and opened his own shop.

UTAS

I had almost the same experience with the Toyota shop in Naperville in 2007; I ended up buying Lexus from that point forward, because the Toyota luxury-line dealership was more willing to actually deal, and I'm not sure why. But looking back, I'm happier going forward with Lexus, because of 1) the build-quality is better; 2) the driving experience is better; and 3) the personal experiences, both service and sales, are superior. Those are only the hilights - subtle positive differences are also appreciated with Lexus.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

^^^^IMHO, the build quality on the Toyota is pretty darn good. I bought a Corolla for my 48 year old step son, Ya I know, 6 months ago. It was the bottom of the line L Model, and, again IMHO, the fit and finish is really quite good. Not Lexus good, but for a relatively cheap car, I was impressed.

Lou

bobmoore

Both cars are nice. I thought the styling of the ES300h was better. Didn't like the Avalon's dash at all, it was a deal killer for me.

Toys4RJill

From everything I have been reading, this new Avalon appears to be a better car in a lot of aspects than the Lexus ES. Interior materials and quietness of the car is what I have been reading are the strong suits and knowing leather seats and heated are standard are nice to know. There is something not right when a luxury nameplate does not have leather or heated seats standard.

I am going to have to check out the Avalon for myself.

SW17LS

BMW and Mercedes have been selling cars more expensive than the ES for years without leather seats. In fact, it's rare to find anything below a 535 or E550 with leather seats.

JerryKK

Actually that is not true. The BMW 328 with a minimal package comes with leather seats and would be priced below the ES!

jollick

Form the BMW website today:

Seating and interior features
8-way power front seats; includes 2-way manual headrests, and driver memory with 2 presets for exterior mirror and seat positions Leatherette upholstery

I believe that Leatherette means fake or simulated leather, not real.

My experience with BMW is that they nickle and dime you for every option, even a under hood heat shield is an option. And don't get me started on the service cost. I will put my money on the Lexus products.

LexBob2

It's safe to say that many MB and BMW entry level, and above, models come standard with imitation leather and that leather is an option.

We were recently shopping BMW and MB SUV's and after the initial surprise both my wife and I felt we'd be comfortable with the imitation products from each. IMO the leatherette in the MB is not bad at all I'm just used to leather in upscale cars..

In the end we bought an Audi which has leather standard. In the MB and BMW leather is around $2,000 more.

SW17LS

Go to a BMW lot and count the cars stocked that have leather and not leatherette, I just did this...so I know. I have a coworker with a $55,000 X5 that has leatherette. It is almost impossible to find a C class, E350, GLK, or ML Mercedes with leather and not leatherette unless it has a huge package. Just because the package is available doesn't mean its on the cars stocked at the dealer. Guy who works for me just bought a $44k C300...with fake leather (or MBTEX) they call it. He said it was impossible to find a C class on a lot with real leather that was not an AMG model. I extensively looked at the E350 and drove many $60+ E350s without real leather. I think I saw one or two total with leather.

Anyways, even if every BMW or Mercedes on the lot had leather, its an option on all of them that costs more than the Lexus option, at least the Lexus option comes with other things. Lexus did away with standard leather on the ES, but it REDUCED the MSRP of the base model as well. When you option one up, its within $1,500 of the 2012 model car, with more content.

I'd also challenge the statement that a 328 with leather is cheaper than an ES without leather. A base 328 is $36,500, a base ES is $36,100, $400 cheaper base. The Base ES has significantly more features, size, power than a base 328. Bear in mind also that BMW charges $550 for any color other than straight black or white. Just adding leather and a color to a 328...with NO OPTIONS OR PACKAGES yields a cost of $39,345. That price gets you a 3 with no wood trim, no heated seats, no moonroof, no keyless entry and start, no lumbar support in the seats. True, an ES package with leather will run you about $1,500 more than that, but you get a LOT of content for that $1,500.

And on top of that, the NuLuxe is much softer and more genuine feeling than either BMW's leatherette or Mercedes' MBTEX. If anything...dare I say its nicer feeling than the leather in the ES...at least the leather in the non-UL ES.