"A Bit Louder & Stiffer Than the Previous ES"
11-26-12, 03:25 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
I wonder if some of the concern over the ride and noise level of the new ES is due to an adjustment period with the new model?
I bought a new gen 2007 ES350 just when it was launched in late-April/early- May 2006. There was a lot of concern at that time over the ride, noise and handling of the new gen vs. the ES330 that it replaced. Similar to the comparisons of the new gen ES vs. the previous model.
After a while the concern seemed to die down, maybe as drivers adjusted to the car until after a while it didn't seem to be an issue any longer.
Just a thought.
I bought a new gen 2007 ES350 just when it was launched in late-April/early- May 2006. There was a lot of concern at that time over the ride, noise and handling of the new gen vs. the ES330 that it replaced. Similar to the comparisons of the new gen ES vs. the previous model.
After a while the concern seemed to die down, maybe as drivers adjusted to the car until after a while it didn't seem to be an issue any longer.
Just a thought.
11-26-12, 04:51 PM
#32
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Now all that has changed. Today's "luxury" cars like Lexus's, Infiniti's, Cadillacs, Lincoln's, etc. do not offer an interior as rich looking and feeling as even a 47 year old Chevrolet like this: http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/b...age2-3_JPG.htm
11-26-12, 06:37 PM
#33
^^^^You've got to be kidding me
There's no comparison between the Caprice that you reference and a modern day vehicle, any modern day vehicle.
The interior in those cars were truly hostile, skinny huge steering wheel, hard metal windshield frames, all hard metal dashboards, armrests the stuck out like knifes. I could go on and on and on. Seat belt anchors, just the anchors, were finally installed in cars in 1962. And no harness or air bags. If you survived being inside car in those days, and I did, you were indeed lucky.
Lou
There's no comparison between the Caprice that you reference and a modern day vehicle, any modern day vehicle.The interior in those cars were truly hostile, skinny huge steering wheel, hard metal windshield frames, all hard metal dashboards, armrests the stuck out like knifes. I could go on and on and on. Seat belt anchors, just the anchors, were finally installed in cars in 1962. And no harness or air bags. If you survived being inside car in those days, and I did, you were indeed lucky.
Lou
11-26-12, 07:28 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
^^^^You've got to be kidding me There's no comparison between the Caprice that you reference and a modern day vehicle, any modern day vehicle.
The interior in those cars were truly hostile, skinny huge steering wheel, hard metal windshield frames, all hard metal dashboards, armrests the stuck out like knifes. I could go on and on and on. Seat belt anchors, just the anchors, were finally installed in cars in 1962. And no harness or air bags. If you survived being inside car in those days, and I did, you were indeed lucky.
Lou
There's no comparison between the Caprice that you reference and a modern day vehicle, any modern day vehicle.The interior in those cars were truly hostile, skinny huge steering wheel, hard metal windshield frames, all hard metal dashboards, armrests the stuck out like knifes. I could go on and on and on. Seat belt anchors, just the anchors, were finally installed in cars in 1962. And no harness or air bags. If you survived being inside car in those days, and I did, you were indeed lucky.
Lou
11-26-12, 09:53 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
The traditional reason people dreamed of owning a new luxury car was the expectation that the car would deliver a smoother, quieter ride and have more comfortable seats plus a richer looking and feeling interior materials. Better power and cornering capability were desirable too, but were not top priorities.
In the past tense. A company that continues to built what is no longer what people "dream" of, is a company that goes out of business.
I'm with ya, i think the degradation in material quality is a shame, and its one of the reasons why I also like a luxury car. Ride difference, if there truly is one with 17" wheels which I have not experienced, would also be a shame. However, you can't blame Lexus for building what the public wants, and sales figures show its working. No competitors car at that price point is any different.
Also, we can't loose sight of the fact that the ES is an entry level car. If you want excellent interior quality you can have it by spending more, the GS interior has excellent material quality for about $15,000 more. Its a sportier ride, but if we're saying the ES doesn't ride as well anyway, at least its firmer with purpose.
11-27-12, 05:43 AM
#36
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A bit of an apple to orange comparison of a 2008 Avalon Limited with most of the bells n' whistles (which we traded) to the ES300h with comparable options: The ES is a "little" quieter with "slightly" better handling and ride. The ES tracks a bit better on highway driving. Re: aesthetics / appointments: The 2013 ES300h exhibits a less plush interior with more semi-hard plastic parts, which BTW causes errant buzzes and intermittent rattles (currently being worked on).
E.g., the Avalon had very nice leather appointments on the doors with large capacity fold-out storage (the ES door compartments are smallish and not as useful); the pass-through from the trunk came in handy for transporting long items (lost on the ES300h, b/c of the battery pack); the rear seats reclined for passenger comfort on the Avalon, but not on the ES300h; headliner storage for sunglasses and compass-in-mirror are missing on the ES300h. There are other similarities of "missing" items on the ES300h.
We had an ES350 2011-12 loaner for a few days last week; it drove very much like the '08 Avalon.
In comparison for 2013, at least on the hybrid version, the ES seems improved in areas and compromised in other areas. Keep in mind as one comment mentioned the ES is an entry level luxury vehicle. However, it should at least compare well with the previous top of the line Toyota offering, which from my experience does compare well in some areas, while not so much in other areas. Win some, lose some.
I am quite happy with the trade-in for the new ES300h - it is an excellent set of wheels - note that the first half-tank of gas calculated to 38mpg. Woohoo! But one cannot help miss the cost-cut things that should have been included on the ES300h - an extra $1000 at the factory would probably have turned the trick.
E.g., the Avalon had very nice leather appointments on the doors with large capacity fold-out storage (the ES door compartments are smallish and not as useful); the pass-through from the trunk came in handy for transporting long items (lost on the ES300h, b/c of the battery pack); the rear seats reclined for passenger comfort on the Avalon, but not on the ES300h; headliner storage for sunglasses and compass-in-mirror are missing on the ES300h. There are other similarities of "missing" items on the ES300h.
We had an ES350 2011-12 loaner for a few days last week; it drove very much like the '08 Avalon.
In comparison for 2013, at least on the hybrid version, the ES seems improved in areas and compromised in other areas. Keep in mind as one comment mentioned the ES is an entry level luxury vehicle. However, it should at least compare well with the previous top of the line Toyota offering, which from my experience does compare well in some areas, while not so much in other areas. Win some, lose some.
I am quite happy with the trade-in for the new ES300h - it is an excellent set of wheels - note that the first half-tank of gas calculated to 38mpg. Woohoo! But one cannot help miss the cost-cut things that should have been included on the ES300h - an extra $1000 at the factory would probably have turned the trick.
11-27-12, 09:01 AM
#37
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I agree with utas, ESP with the comparison to the Avalon. The compass thing has saved my butt many times and prevented me from going the wrong direction many times.
One thing that the new Avalon has is lighted cup holders in the front seats. Since I keep various odds and ends there, it would be nice to have it lit, esp when you're blindly trying to put down a cup of hot coffee at night. I already paid for the ambient lighting, the cup holders would've been nice.
It's also important to note that the sticker price for the ES actually went down from 2012 to 2013, esp notable for a redesigned model.
One thing that the new Avalon has is lighted cup holders in the front seats. Since I keep various odds and ends there, it would be nice to have it lit, esp when you're blindly trying to put down a cup of hot coffee at night. I already paid for the ambient lighting, the cup holders would've been nice.
It's also important to note that the sticker price for the ES actually went down from 2012 to 2013, esp notable for a redesigned model.
11-27-12, 11:01 AM
#38
some more observations to support the claim that it is in fact the bridgestones that are causing a harsher ride instead of the redesigned suspension or rim size:
"...If there's a downside to the Lexus ES sedan's newfound interest in handling, it's ride comfort. When we drove the ES 300h earlier this year, our test car had Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires and rode fine on Oregon roads. This car has P215/55R17 Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 tires, and they don't offer as much compliance as we'd like over the bumps and expansion joints on Southern California freeways..
Taken from a review posted today by edmunds:
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/es-300h...road-test.html
"...If there's a downside to the Lexus ES sedan's newfound interest in handling, it's ride comfort. When we drove the ES 300h earlier this year, our test car had Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires and rode fine on Oregon roads. This car has P215/55R17 Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 tires, and they don't offer as much compliance as we'd like over the bumps and expansion joints on Southern California freeways..
Taken from a review posted today by edmunds:
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/es-300h...road-test.html
11-27-12, 02:28 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
When you compare optioned cars, which one typically does, the car is about $2,000 more than the previous car.
11-28-12, 08:25 PM
#40
Had the Michelin MXM4s installed today on the OEM 18" rims (swapped out the Bridgestones) and the verdict is in: ride is infinitely better over bumps and rough roads. Road noise is now virtually non-existent... Happy camper here 
11-28-12, 09:40 PM
#41
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very true. i just looked at the brochure for the 2012 ES. I will miss the swiveling HIDs that are on my 2012 loaner right now
11-29-12, 06:04 AM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah, its one of those little things you get used to.
Hell, now you have to step up to a $60k luxury package GS to get AFS (swivel headlights). I drove a $55k premium GS yesterday that did not have it, I noticed immediately.
Hell, now you have to step up to a $60k luxury package GS to get AFS (swivel headlights). I drove a $55k premium GS yesterday that did not have it, I noticed immediately.
01-29-13, 02:05 AM
#43
Intermediate
Thread Starter
In their Nov. issue, Motor Trend published a road test of the ES350 vs the Azera & LaCrosse. The testers had this to say about the ES350:
"It's loud for a Lexus, and I'd wager it's louder than the previous-gen ES. There's a lot of road noise and it wanders quite a bit on-center. This new ES 350 is really suffering from a bad case of unmet expectations. It's louder than we expected. And rides worse than we expected. When you climb into a Lexus, you're expecting, at minimum, Lexus quietness and ride suppleness. And you hope you'll be surprised by more. I'm starting to get St. Antoine's "beneath what Lexus is clearly capable of" comment. It's a competent car, but not only does it not raise the bar for the ES 350's traditional qualities, it actually seems louder and coarser on the road than its predecessor."
Motor Trends test car had the 215/55R17 93V M+S Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires.
"It's loud for a Lexus, and I'd wager it's louder than the previous-gen ES. There's a lot of road noise and it wanders quite a bit on-center. This new ES 350 is really suffering from a bad case of unmet expectations. It's louder than we expected. And rides worse than we expected. When you climb into a Lexus, you're expecting, at minimum, Lexus quietness and ride suppleness. And you hope you'll be surprised by more. I'm starting to get St. Antoine's "beneath what Lexus is clearly capable of" comment. It's a competent car, but not only does it not raise the bar for the ES 350's traditional qualities, it actually seems louder and coarser on the road than its predecessor."
Motor Trends test car had the 215/55R17 93V M+S Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires.
01-29-13, 04:10 AM
#44
"and it wanders quite a bit on-center" I am suspect of the entire review and disagree with all their comments, especially this one. My ES tracks amazingly well, almost like it was on rails, and is significantly improved over the previous model. How reliable/credible can the other info be if they are so off on this one comment. Frankly it doesn't sound like they even drove the car.
As far as noise, only previous owners of ES models know for sure, or anyone that does a scientific test. My guess is that it is just as quite or quieter - I don't notice any significant difference from my '11. Their comment is subjective - they obviously did not really test, nor did they say it was nosier or quieter than the other two models they were testing.
As far as ride, the new ES has a somewhat firmer, more solid ride than the model it replaces, perhaps a bit more sport like. I like it better than the its predecessor and prefer it.
Swivel headlights? I like 'gadgets' and kind of miss them BUT I never felt they were very functional in the first place as the lights do an exceptional job of lighting up the road both in from and to the sides of the car. Had it been an option though, I probably would have bought it. But I certainly don't miss it. I find the new ES better illuminates the sides of the road (my subjective opinion) than the old ES.
The new ES is certainly not a perfect car. But it is pretty darn close. And a pretty good one!
As far as noise, only previous owners of ES models know for sure, or anyone that does a scientific test. My guess is that it is just as quite or quieter - I don't notice any significant difference from my '11. Their comment is subjective - they obviously did not really test, nor did they say it was nosier or quieter than the other two models they were testing.
As far as ride, the new ES has a somewhat firmer, more solid ride than the model it replaces, perhaps a bit more sport like. I like it better than the its predecessor and prefer it.
Swivel headlights? I like 'gadgets' and kind of miss them BUT I never felt they were very functional in the first place as the lights do an exceptional job of lighting up the road both in from and to the sides of the car. Had it been an option though, I probably would have bought it. But I certainly don't miss it. I find the new ES better illuminates the sides of the road (my subjective opinion) than the old ES.
The new ES is certainly not a perfect car. But it is pretty darn close. And a pretty good one!
Last edited by ElliotB; 01-29-13 at 04:33 AM.
01-29-13, 05:49 AM
#45
"and it wanders quite a bit on-center" I am suspect of the entire review and disagree with all their comments, especially this one. My ES tracks amazingly well, almost like it was on rails, and is significantly improved over the previous model. How reliable/credible can the other info be if they are so off on this one comment. Frankly it doesn't sound like they even drove the car.
As far as noise, only previous owners of ES models know for sure, or anyone that does a scientific test. My guess is that it is just as quite or quieter - I don't notice any significant difference from my '11. Their comment is subjective - they obviously did not really test, nor did they say it was nosier or quieter than the other two models they were testing.
As far as ride, the new ES has a somewhat firmer, more solid ride than the model it replaces, perhaps a bit more sport like. I like it better than the its predecessor and prefer it.
Swivel headlights? I like 'gadgets' and kind of miss them BUT I never felt they were very functional in the first place as the lights do an exceptional job of lighting up the road both in from and to the sides of the car. Had it been an option though, I probably would have bought it. But I certainly don't miss it. I find the new ES better illuminates the sides of the road (my subjective opinion) than the old ES.
The new ES is certainly not a perfect car. But it is pretty darn close. And a pretty good one!
As far as noise, only previous owners of ES models know for sure, or anyone that does a scientific test. My guess is that it is just as quite or quieter - I don't notice any significant difference from my '11. Their comment is subjective - they obviously did not really test, nor did they say it was nosier or quieter than the other two models they were testing.
As far as ride, the new ES has a somewhat firmer, more solid ride than the model it replaces, perhaps a bit more sport like. I like it better than the its predecessor and prefer it.
Swivel headlights? I like 'gadgets' and kind of miss them BUT I never felt they were very functional in the first place as the lights do an exceptional job of lighting up the road both in from and to the sides of the car. Had it been an option though, I probably would have bought it. But I certainly don't miss it. I find the new ES better illuminates the sides of the road (my subjective opinion) than the old ES.
The new ES is certainly not a perfect car. But it is pretty darn close. And a pretty good one!