ES300h Signals Shift in Lexus Hybrid Philosophy
05-18-12, 06:34 AM
#1
ES300h Signals Shift in Lexus Hybrid Philosophy
Traditionally Lexus and Toyota have followed a different path when it comes to implementing hybrid technology into their cars, but that’s about to change.
Historically Toyota has opted to use the gasoline-electric mix to deliver maximum fuel economy above all else – take the Prius as an example. Lexus, however, has instead used electricity as an added boost to its gasoline motors, providing additional power while retaining modest fuel economy. The result are cars like the GS450h, which delivers performance equal to that of a V8, but with V6 fuel efficiency. As well, there’s the flagship LS600h, with a 5.0-liter V8 engine mated to an electric motor and a total output of 428 hp. This car, boasted Lexus at the time, was intended to deliver V12 power but with V8 fuel economy.
The problem says Lexus ES and LS product planner Ketan Renade is that sales are extremely slow. “We did studies and focus groups and people said, ‘hybrid equals mpg’”, says Renade. “Cars with 400 and 500 hp are great, but no one is buying them.”
The new ES300h is the first product to result from the new hybrid philosophy at Lexus. Unlike the recently revealed GS, which uses an electric motor to boost performance, the ES300h mates a 4-cylinder with Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive system to deliver 200 hp and 39 mpg combined. That’s well below the gasoline V6-powered ES350, which delivers 268 hp, although it’s also a 50 percent improvement in fuel economy.
The ES isn’t the exception either, but the new rule, with Renade nearly confirming a decision to axe the LS600 in favor of a less-potent hybrid powertrain. Speaking with AutoGuide at the recent ES launch, he said that, “If we did a future hybrid Lexus LS, it would go V6 hybrid.”
Will Lexus deliver a future LS hybrid? Most certainly, especially as Lexus only sells hybrid models in Europe where it’s trying desperately to win over buyers from the German brands. That said, look for an LS450h in the not-to-distant future.
Historically Toyota has opted to use the gasoline-electric mix to deliver maximum fuel economy above all else – take the Prius as an example. Lexus, however, has instead used electricity as an added boost to its gasoline motors, providing additional power while retaining modest fuel economy. The result are cars like the GS450h, which delivers performance equal to that of a V8, but with V6 fuel efficiency. As well, there’s the flagship LS600h, with a 5.0-liter V8 engine mated to an electric motor and a total output of 428 hp. This car, boasted Lexus at the time, was intended to deliver V12 power but with V8 fuel economy.
The problem says Lexus ES and LS product planner Ketan Renade is that sales are extremely slow. “We did studies and focus groups and people said, ‘hybrid equals mpg’”, says Renade. “Cars with 400 and 500 hp are great, but no one is buying them.”
The new ES300h is the first product to result from the new hybrid philosophy at Lexus. Unlike the recently revealed GS, which uses an electric motor to boost performance, the ES300h mates a 4-cylinder with Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive system to deliver 200 hp and 39 mpg combined. That’s well below the gasoline V6-powered ES350, which delivers 268 hp, although it’s also a 50 percent improvement in fuel economy.
The ES isn’t the exception either, but the new rule, with Renade nearly confirming a decision to axe the LS600 in favor of a less-potent hybrid powertrain. Speaking with AutoGuide at the recent ES launch, he said that, “If we did a future hybrid Lexus LS, it would go V6 hybrid.”
Will Lexus deliver a future LS hybrid? Most certainly, especially as Lexus only sells hybrid models in Europe where it’s trying desperately to win over buyers from the German brands. That said, look for an LS450h in the not-to-distant future.
05-18-12, 11:39 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I think that's harsh. The hs is irrelevant of course and the ct is pretty new, but before those, the rxh, lsh and gsh have been about quiet and a perf boost more than a bog mpg spike.
I've always found lexus hybrid strategy confused and lame. This new direction, focusing on mpg makes a lot more sense.
I've always found lexus hybrid strategy confused and lame. This new direction, focusing on mpg makes a lot more sense.
05-18-12, 12:04 PM
#6
It is pretty simple, there are 2 types of electric hybrids, tuned for high efficiency or high performance.
Initially Lexus only had performance hybrid, LSh and GSh. Now they start having high efficiency hybrids.......HSh, CTh, ESh.
This dude is saying the ESh, that is not even on the street yet, is Lexus 1st high efficiency hybrid, while the HSh and CTh have been on the road for years........... The HSh is even being discontinued due to low sales volume after being on the market for 3 years, it came and gone already and this guy failed to even recognize that it exist. As new as the CT is, is been 1 year and 3 months since it went on sale. You call me harsh?
Is pretty simply, see above^^ Is not lame, performance hybrid rocks!
Initially Lexus only had performance hybrid, LSh and GSh. Now they start having high efficiency hybrids.......HSh, CTh, ESh.
Is pretty simply, see above^^ Is not lame, performance hybrid rocks!
Last edited by BNR34; 05-18-12 at 12:10 PM.
05-18-12, 12:22 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Even the lexus product planner says it's failed, the public is not interested in sufficient numbers in 'performance hybrids'. Plus, once the battery drains, the car is just draggin around a really heavy anchor until they recharge. 
The new gs450h clearly went more toward fuel economy, and the next ls will it seems. At that point, 'performance hybirid' is over.
The success of the sluggish prius ruined it.
The new gs450h clearly went more toward fuel economy, and the next ls will it seems. At that point, 'performance hybirid' is over.
The success of the sluggish prius ruined it.
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05-18-12, 12:27 PM
#8
Even the lexus product planner says it's failed, the public is not interested in sufficient numbers in 'performance hybrids'. Plus, once the battery drains, the car is just draggin around a really heavy anchor until they recharge.
The new gs450h clearly went more toward fuel economy, and the next ls will it seems. At that point, 'performance hybirid' is over.
The success of the sluggish prius ruined it.
The new gs450h clearly went more toward fuel economy, and the next ls will it seems. At that point, 'performance hybirid' is over.
The success of the sluggish prius ruined it.
05-18-12, 02:13 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
05-18-12, 08:15 PM
#11
Pole Position
I do get what BNR34 is saying.
Until they can lower the weight of hybrid batteries such that the combined combustion engine+battery weight is less than the weight of a V8 or supercharged V6 and until their CVTs can be as responsive as the best auto/auto-manuals, hybrids as performance vehicles simply can't compete just from a handling/road-connection standpoint.
For me, Lexus should stick to this formula :
Mainstream cars = efficient V6's
Super-Fuel efficient/SULEV cars = hybrids, also keep help keep overall fleet emissions low
performance cars = V8s, supercharged V6s
Until they can lower the weight of hybrid batteries such that the combined combustion engine+battery weight is less than the weight of a V8 or supercharged V6 and until their CVTs can be as responsive as the best auto/auto-manuals, hybrids as performance vehicles simply can't compete just from a handling/road-connection standpoint.
For me, Lexus should stick to this formula :
Mainstream cars = efficient V6's
Super-Fuel efficient/SULEV cars = hybrids, also keep help keep overall fleet emissions low
performance cars = V8s, supercharged V6s
Last edited by natnut; 05-18-12 at 08:21 PM.
05-18-12, 10:48 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
I winning deal for everyone would be an ES hybrid that achieved high mpg's AND decent power. The day that happens is the day the car stands out and sells well. If 200 hp is enough to propel this 38 mpg car to 60 mph in under eight seconds, then I think we've arrived.
05-18-12, 11:34 PM
#13
that does get somewhere interesting. first it's going to be exciting to see how lexus "new" hybrid philosophy works out. i have a feeling the es300h can be a great hit.
and if that's the case, does that mean lexus will "stop" using hybrid for power? or they are going to use hybrid in two different ways? i am asking coz' they still have the gs450h, which somewhat doesn't fall anywhere within the article
and if that's the case, does that mean lexus will "stop" using hybrid for power? or they are going to use hybrid in two different ways? i am asking coz' they still have the gs450h, which somewhat doesn't fall anywhere within the article
05-19-12, 12:52 AM
#14
that does get somewhere interesting. first it's going to be exciting to see how lexus "new" hybrid philosophy works out. i have a feeling the es300h can be a great hit.
and if that's the case, does that mean lexus will "stop" using hybrid for power? or they are going to use hybrid in two different ways? i am asking coz' they still have the gs450h, which somewhat doesn't fall anywhere within the article
and if that's the case, does that mean lexus will "stop" using hybrid for power? or they are going to use hybrid in two different ways? i am asking coz' they still have the gs450h, which somewhat doesn't fall anywhere within the article
New GS450h does that and ES300h does that too... it should do 0-60 in mid 7's, which is plenty fine for most people and get 40mpg.
In the end, a lot like diesel in Europe - you buy diesel not only because it gets good mpg, but also because it is higher performance version (for normal cars).
05-19-12, 01:00 AM
#15
Performance, presumably a lesser worry for the hybrid midsize sedan buyer, improves in every testable way. Going from 0-60 mph takes 7.2 seconds, a half-second quicker than the 2007 model. The quarter mile is completed faster (15.5 seconds at 91.5 mph versus 15.9 at 89.1), the 60-0 braking distance is shorter (128 feet versus 134), and the figure-eight time is a full 1.1 second clear of the elder sedan's time (28.0 seconds at 0.61 average g versus 29.1 at 0.56). The electric steering has positive, linear weighting and the firm brake pedal offers a surprisingly short stroke with little of the grabbiness anticipated from a braking system with regenerative functions. And speaking of regenerative braking, it has also been optimized, per Toyota. Golly, is there anything the Camry Hybrid can't do?
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1vIfoM1OA
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1vIfoM1OA