Transmission Service?
06-05-18, 06:39 AM
#16
This subject comes up regularly on most car forums and the results are typically the same, some do - some don't - some might.
My belief is that no lubricant is good forever and ultimately needs to be replaced, so I do, sometimes...
Auto makers want to get their cars out of warranty coverage as directly as possible, so they're are not going permit their dealers to risk things by futzing with the transmission while the car is still covered. Likewise, the delers don't want the business of doing transmission work in their shop, so they will likely decline the requests to do it, regardless.
That's for non-dealer garages.
To me it depends on what my plans are for a car. Is it something special that I intend to keep long-term. If so, then I will have it done between 60K and 100K. But only if I think I'll be holding on to the car well into the 100Ks. If not, then I don't.
Realistically, I don't expect to keep my ES that long, so I probably won't.
My Jaguars, on the other hand, have always had that work done.
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF (its aubergine)
My belief is that no lubricant is good forever and ultimately needs to be replaced, so I do, sometimes...
Auto makers want to get their cars out of warranty coverage as directly as possible, so they're are not going permit their dealers to risk things by futzing with the transmission while the car is still covered. Likewise, the delers don't want the business of doing transmission work in their shop, so they will likely decline the requests to do it, regardless.
That's for non-dealer garages.
To me it depends on what my plans are for a car. Is it something special that I intend to keep long-term. If so, then I will have it done between 60K and 100K. But only if I think I'll be holding on to the car well into the 100Ks. If not, then I don't.
Realistically, I don't expect to keep my ES that long, so I probably won't.
My Jaguars, on the other hand, have always had that work done.
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF (its aubergine)
06-06-18, 08:13 PM
#17
is there a chance a lexus dealer will fudge this up because they almost never do it?
i understand that they are familiar with the car and instructions but still
also what would be a hypothetical scenario where the fluid service causes an issue with a transmission if the car is out of warranty?
i understand that they are familiar with the car and instructions but still
also what would be a hypothetical scenario where the fluid service causes an issue with a transmission if the car is out of warranty?
06-07-18, 07:57 AM
#18
>also what would be a hypothetical scenario where the fluid service causes an issue with a transmission
That doesn't matter, the basic fact is that new car dealers just don't want to do that sort of work, period. So they will refuse the job when someone asks them to do it.
That doesn't matter, the basic fact is that new car dealers just don't want to do that sort of work, period. So they will refuse the job when someone asks them to do it.
06-07-18, 07:20 PM
#19
Advanced
Ok, my last comment. (Maybe)
if toyota has trans fluid that lasts forever, why doesn’t everyone use it?
Still haven't seen a logical explanation from toyota as to why it “never” needs to be changed.
if toyota has trans fluid that lasts forever, why doesn’t everyone use it?
Still haven't seen a logical explanation from toyota as to why it “never” needs to be changed.
06-08-18, 04:05 AM
#20
I am guessing we will never get that explanation from Toyota. Somebody here in CL gave what I think is the best explanation: forever means until the warranty expires.
Whenever/if Toyota comes up with a new tranny fluid, WS will go the same route as Type IV. Remember when Type IV was a "forever" fluid, unless you drove under 'special' conditions?
MD
Whenever/if Toyota comes up with a new tranny fluid, WS will go the same route as Type IV. Remember when Type IV was a "forever" fluid, unless you drove under 'special' conditions?
MD
06-08-18, 06:05 AM
#21
>Still haven't seen a logical explanation from toyota as to why it “never” needs to be changed.
Well, by not being mixed with engine oil it has a very limited opportunity to become "dirty". It's in a well closed system with filters to remove wear particles from the transmission itself. Lubricants are also much, much, improved so their lifetimes in such a closed system are getting pretty long.
However, the fact remains that the long molecule chains will begin to break down over time leading to a progressive loss in lubrication ability. But that probably won't happen while the average person owns a car. So manufacturers tell "average" users to not bother changing, they just phrase it as "it never needs to be done".
But, again, if I plan to own a car over 100K miles, I'll have it changed at around that point. It always seemed like cheap insurance to me...
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF (its aubergine)
Well, by not being mixed with engine oil it has a very limited opportunity to become "dirty". It's in a well closed system with filters to remove wear particles from the transmission itself. Lubricants are also much, much, improved so their lifetimes in such a closed system are getting pretty long.
However, the fact remains that the long molecule chains will begin to break down over time leading to a progressive loss in lubrication ability. But that probably won't happen while the average person owns a car. So manufacturers tell "average" users to not bother changing, they just phrase it as "it never needs to be done".
But, again, if I plan to own a car over 100K miles, I'll have it changed at around that point. It always seemed like cheap insurance to me...
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF (its aubergine)
06-08-18, 06:31 AM
#22
Lead Lap
>Lubricants are also much, much, improved so their lifetimes in such a closed system are getting pretty long.
However, the fact remains that the long molecule chains will begin to break down over time leading to a progressive loss in lubrication ability. But that probably won't happen while the average person owns a car. So manufacturers tell "average" users to not bother changing, they just phrase it as "it never needs to be done".
However, the fact remains that the long molecule chains will begin to break down over time leading to a progressive loss in lubrication ability. But that probably won't happen while the average person owns a car. So manufacturers tell "average" users to not bother changing, they just phrase it as "it never needs to be done".
Additionally, I believe that part of the theory for not recommending transmission fluid changes is that the process of changing the transmission fluid, by itself, has the potential to introduce contaminants to the system.
06-08-18, 10:25 AM
#24
>“Well, by not being mixed with engine oil”
not following this, please explain.
Well, in the olde days (perhaps only for standard transmissions) the engine and transmission were directly connected (still is on my motorcycle) so the tranny was exposed to contaminants generated by the engine. A very unfriendly environment as you would expect.
I just said that to emphasize that a transmission is a closed system not subject to contaminants generated outside.
not following this, please explain.
Well, in the olde days (perhaps only for standard transmissions) the engine and transmission were directly connected (still is on my motorcycle) so the tranny was exposed to contaminants generated by the engine. A very unfriendly environment as you would expect.
I just said that to emphasize that a transmission is a closed system not subject to contaminants generated outside.
06-08-18, 10:54 AM
#25
Advanced
Ok, thx for the explanation.
Just to be clear though, my 90’s Ford, Chevy and Chrysler’s were all closed systems, but that didn’t stop the ATF from going dark, and needing replacement before 100,000 kms.
I’d love to hear from these “smart” Japanese engineers as to why Lexus/Toyota are immune from ATF degradation.
Maybe a Toyota employee here on the forum can find an answer.
Just to be clear though, my 90’s Ford, Chevy and Chrysler’s were all closed systems, but that didn’t stop the ATF from going dark, and needing replacement before 100,000 kms.
I’d love to hear from these “smart” Japanese engineers as to why Lexus/Toyota are immune from ATF degradation.
Maybe a Toyota employee here on the forum can find an answer.
06-09-18, 01:25 PM
#26
>also what would be a hypothetical scenario where the fluid service causes an issue with a transmission
That doesn't matter, the basic fact is that new car dealers just don't want to do that sort of work, period. So they will refuse the job when someone asks them to do it.
That doesn't matter, the basic fact is that new car dealers just don't want to do that sort of work, period. So they will refuse the job when someone asks them to do it.
06-09-18, 05:23 PM
#27
06-09-18, 05:24 PM
#28
Ok, thx for the explanation.
Just to be clear though, my 90’s Ford, Chevy and Chrysler’s were all closed systems, but that didn’t stop the ATF from going dark, and needing replacement before 100,000 kms.
I’d love to hear from these “smart” Japanese engineers as to why Lexus/Toyota are immune from ATF degradation.
Maybe a Toyota employee here on the forum can find an answer.
Just to be clear though, my 90’s Ford, Chevy and Chrysler’s were all closed systems, but that didn’t stop the ATF from going dark, and needing replacement before 100,000 kms.
I’d love to hear from these “smart” Japanese engineers as to why Lexus/Toyota are immune from ATF degradation.
Maybe a Toyota employee here on the forum can find an answer.
You cannot compare a 90's domestic car to modern cars 20 to 25 years later.
06-10-18, 01:37 PM
#29
Advanced
ok, let me pursue this a little further. If Toyota fluid was different/better than all the others wouldn’t be to hard for someone to analyze it and duplicate it. Point being, we have seen nothing that explains why the fluid supposedly lasts forever, never degrades and never needs changing.