Question about purchasing a 2016 CPO Lexus ES 350 with some minor damage
12-31-17, 12:56 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Question about purchasing a 2016 CPO Lexus ES 350 with some minor damage
Howdy all,
I was planning on purchasing a CPO 2016 Lexus ES 350 with 30K miles.
The vehicle comes with the following:
1. Ultra Luxury package.
2. Mark Levinson audio package.
3. Parking assist.
4. Automatic high beams.
5. Blind spot monitor.
6. Power trunk.
7. 18" graphite rims.
8. Wheel locks, carpet floor mats, cargo net, first aid kit, etc.
...as well as:
1. All new tires (not Bridgestone or Michelin's).
2. All new brake pads.
Originally the dealer wanted $37K for the vehicle, but after a few months of negotiating, I was able to knock the price down to $31.5K.
There's just one problem with the vehicle... It sustained some minor bumper damage about a week before it was returned to the dealer (previously a personal lease).
The CarFax doesn't show an accident, but does show that the vehicle sustained minor damage.
According to the dealer, there was no frame damage, and the bumper was simply replaced.
Because of that, I asked to have the vehicle inspected by a Toyota / Lexus mechanic in the area, and they agreed.
My questions are this:
1. Should I also have the vehicle checked by an auto body shop as well?
2. If so, should I have the auto body check the vehicle first, or the mechanic?
The reason I ask is that if the body shop sees that there was more damage than the dealer stated. Or even worse, if the vehicle sustained frame damage, then I wouldn't be interested in the car (and it wouldn't make sense to take the vehicle to a mechanic afterwards).
3. When choosing an auto body shop (as there are a few near the dealership), should I choose one that specializes in foreign or exotic cars?
4. Other than having the vehicle inspected by a Toyota / Lexus mechanic and an auto body shop, is there anything else I should do or look at?
I actually took a look at the car, especially the rear, and didn't notice anything unusual except for a white substance here and there (the dealer said was wax).
5. During the test drive (assuming the mechanic and body shop give it a pass), is there anything I should pay attention to?
6. I was also planning on purchasing an extended warranty (not from the dealer). I found a dealer who's willing to sell me a 10 year 125K Lexus Platinum warranty for $2900.00. Does that sound like a good price, or should I keep looking around?
7. Lastly, but most importantly, should I just walk away from the vehicle if it has some minor damage reported?
Unfortunately, there's nothing in my area that's even close to $31.5K for a 2016 with the specs mentioned. Most vehicles in the past (similarly spec'd) have been selling around the high 36K to 38K range. Some of those weren't even Lexus certified, but rather, dealer certified.
Furthermore, a lot of those vehicles were out of state, and would require that I foot the bill to have the vehicle shipped to my home (adding about $1K to $2K on top of the purchase price).
So 31.5K for a Lexus certified vehicle that has everything I want, plus the exterior and interior colors I've been looking for (both black), seems like the best deal I'll see for the foreseeable future.
I also put a lot of time and effort in haggling the price down, as I had to get really creative to get the dealer to drop the price to $31.5K from an original $37K.
Thanks for the help and here's to hoping you all have a safe and happy New Year's!
D.B.
I was planning on purchasing a CPO 2016 Lexus ES 350 with 30K miles.
The vehicle comes with the following:
1. Ultra Luxury package.
2. Mark Levinson audio package.
3. Parking assist.
4. Automatic high beams.
5. Blind spot monitor.
6. Power trunk.
7. 18" graphite rims.
8. Wheel locks, carpet floor mats, cargo net, first aid kit, etc.
...as well as:
1. All new tires (not Bridgestone or Michelin's).
2. All new brake pads.
Originally the dealer wanted $37K for the vehicle, but after a few months of negotiating, I was able to knock the price down to $31.5K.
There's just one problem with the vehicle... It sustained some minor bumper damage about a week before it was returned to the dealer (previously a personal lease).
The CarFax doesn't show an accident, but does show that the vehicle sustained minor damage.
According to the dealer, there was no frame damage, and the bumper was simply replaced.
Because of that, I asked to have the vehicle inspected by a Toyota / Lexus mechanic in the area, and they agreed.
My questions are this:
1. Should I also have the vehicle checked by an auto body shop as well?
2. If so, should I have the auto body check the vehicle first, or the mechanic?
The reason I ask is that if the body shop sees that there was more damage than the dealer stated. Or even worse, if the vehicle sustained frame damage, then I wouldn't be interested in the car (and it wouldn't make sense to take the vehicle to a mechanic afterwards).
3. When choosing an auto body shop (as there are a few near the dealership), should I choose one that specializes in foreign or exotic cars?
4. Other than having the vehicle inspected by a Toyota / Lexus mechanic and an auto body shop, is there anything else I should do or look at?
I actually took a look at the car, especially the rear, and didn't notice anything unusual except for a white substance here and there (the dealer said was wax).
5. During the test drive (assuming the mechanic and body shop give it a pass), is there anything I should pay attention to?
6. I was also planning on purchasing an extended warranty (not from the dealer). I found a dealer who's willing to sell me a 10 year 125K Lexus Platinum warranty for $2900.00. Does that sound like a good price, or should I keep looking around?
7. Lastly, but most importantly, should I just walk away from the vehicle if it has some minor damage reported?
Unfortunately, there's nothing in my area that's even close to $31.5K for a 2016 with the specs mentioned. Most vehicles in the past (similarly spec'd) have been selling around the high 36K to 38K range. Some of those weren't even Lexus certified, but rather, dealer certified.
Furthermore, a lot of those vehicles were out of state, and would require that I foot the bill to have the vehicle shipped to my home (adding about $1K to $2K on top of the purchase price).
So 31.5K for a Lexus certified vehicle that has everything I want, plus the exterior and interior colors I've been looking for (both black), seems like the best deal I'll see for the foreseeable future.
I also put a lot of time and effort in haggling the price down, as I had to get really creative to get the dealer to drop the price to $31.5K from an original $37K.
Thanks for the help and here's to hoping you all have a safe and happy New Year's!
D.B.
Last edited by DanBryant; 12-31-17 at 12:59 PM.
12-31-17, 01:06 PM
#2
Intermediate
If you are really concerned about it, take it to a body shop that has a frame alignment machine and have them look at it.
If the car is a Lexus CPO, then I would skip the mechanic unless it will put your mind at rest.
Are they dropping the CPO on the car and that is why you are considering the extended warranty from a different dealer?
Price seems a bit high on the warranty but I can't say for sure. I don't think would pay that much for only 125K miles. They are pretty reliable cars.
If the car is a Lexus CPO, then I would skip the mechanic unless it will put your mind at rest.
Are they dropping the CPO on the car and that is why you are considering the extended warranty from a different dealer?
Price seems a bit high on the warranty but I can't say for sure. I don't think would pay that much for only 125K miles. They are pretty reliable cars.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
12-31-17, 01:08 PM
#3
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
If you are really concerned about it, take it to a body shop that has a frame alignment machine and have them look at it.
If the car is a Lexus CPO, then I would skip the mechanic unless it will put your mind at rest.
Are they dropping the CPO on the car and that is why you are considering the extended warranty from a different dealer?
Price seems a bit high on the warranty but I can't say for sure. I don't think would pay that much for only 125K miles. They are pretty reliable cars.
If the car is a Lexus CPO, then I would skip the mechanic unless it will put your mind at rest.
Are they dropping the CPO on the car and that is why you are considering the extended warranty from a different dealer?
Price seems a bit high on the warranty but I can't say for sure. I don't think would pay that much for only 125K miles. They are pretty reliable cars.
The drop in price was merely due to my negotiation tactics and the fact that the car had been on the dealer lot for a while.
The vehicle will still be sold with the Lexus Certified warranty.
As for the extended warranty, I'm not concerned with powertrain giving me problems (as the powertrain hasn't changed since 2007 or so and seems to be very reliable). It's just all the electronics and sensors that I'm worried about giving me problems. Or things like the headlights going out or getting damaged (which I've heard can carry hefty price tags to fix - $2000.00 or more per headlight).
Also, the dealer offering the extended warranty also had an option for 10 years or 100,000 miles for $2100.00. I assume though that hefty increase for an extra 25,000 miles in the warranty is due to all the work that needs to be done with the vehicle after 100,000 miles (ex. water pump replaced, spark plugs, etc).
Thanks,
D.B.
Last edited by DanBryant; 12-31-17 at 01:12 PM.
12-31-17, 01:25 PM
#4
Intermediate
The certified warranty is for 6 years unlimited miles.
Keep in mind the extended warranties don't cover maintenance issues, so unless your water pump breaks, or the spark plugs damage something, the warranty doesn't cover the scheduled maintenance list. Anything under the 5K 10K 15K, 30k, 60k, 90k, 120k, etc... maintenance lists are all out of pocket unless specifically covered (like first 2 oil changes)
I would do a poll and see who has replaced anything expensive (more than $3000) in the first 125K miles. I would imagine that list will be fairly low)
Keep in mind the extended warranties don't cover maintenance issues, so unless your water pump breaks, or the spark plugs damage something, the warranty doesn't cover the scheduled maintenance list. Anything under the 5K 10K 15K, 30k, 60k, 90k, 120k, etc... maintenance lists are all out of pocket unless specifically covered (like first 2 oil changes)
I would do a poll and see who has replaced anything expensive (more than $3000) in the first 125K miles. I would imagine that list will be fairly low)
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
12-31-17, 03:15 PM
#5
Lead Lap
First, the $31,500 price for a 2016 CPO UL package ES with 30,000 miles seems to be good price, and the new tires and brake pads are certainly a plus. I'm assuming, from what you have listed as optional equipment, that the car does not have the Safety Package, including the auto braking, radar cruise control, and lane departure warning. The Safety Package was not yet standard for the 2016 model year. If the car does have the Safety Package, the $31,500 price would be excellent.
I would not have much concern about a bumper that has been replaced. If it gives you peace of mind, have it checked out by a reputable body shop, but, otherwise, a replaced or repaired bumper should be insignificant, and the fact that the car is black is good because non-metallic black is, by far, the easiest color for which to match the paint on the new bumper with the color of the rest of the car.
As far as the two extended warranty options that you have mentioned, I would take a pass on both of them. The likelihood that, between the time that the CPO warranty (or the remainder of the factory power train warranty) ends and the time when coverage would end on either of those extended warranty options, you are going to have to spend $2000 or $3000 in repairs that would have been covered by the extended warranties is slim. Instead of buying the extended warranty, put $2000 or $3000 in an "emergency repair" savings account, and the odds are strongly in your favor that you will end up significantly better off by the time you no longer own the car.
I would not have much concern about a bumper that has been replaced. If it gives you peace of mind, have it checked out by a reputable body shop, but, otherwise, a replaced or repaired bumper should be insignificant, and the fact that the car is black is good because non-metallic black is, by far, the easiest color for which to match the paint on the new bumper with the color of the rest of the car.
As far as the two extended warranty options that you have mentioned, I would take a pass on both of them. The likelihood that, between the time that the CPO warranty (or the remainder of the factory power train warranty) ends and the time when coverage would end on either of those extended warranty options, you are going to have to spend $2000 or $3000 in repairs that would have been covered by the extended warranties is slim. Instead of buying the extended warranty, put $2000 or $3000 in an "emergency repair" savings account, and the odds are strongly in your favor that you will end up significantly better off by the time you no longer own the car.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
12-31-17, 04:19 PM
#6
Lead Lap
First, the $31,500 price for a 2016 CPO UL package ES with 30,000 miles seems to be good price, and the new tires and brake pads are certainly a plus. I'm assuming, from what you have listed as optional equipment, that the car does not have the Safety Package, including the auto braking, radar cruise control, and lane departure warning. The Safety Package was not yet standard for the 2016 model year. If the car does have the Safety Package, the $31,500 price would be excellent.
I would not have much concern about a bumper that has been replaced. If it gives you peace of mind, have it checked out by a reputable body shop, but, otherwise, a replaced or repaired bumper should be insignificant, and the fact that the car is black is good because non-metallic black is, by far, the easiest color for which to match the paint on the new bumper with the color of the rest of the car.
As far as the two extended warranty options that you have mentioned, I would take a pass on both of them. The likelihood that, between the time that the CPO warranty (or the remainder of the factory power train warranty) ends and the time when coverage would end on either of those extended warranty options, you are going to have to spend $2000 or $3000 in repairs that would have been covered by the extended warranties is slim. Instead of buying the extended warranty, put $2000 or $3000 in an "emergency repair" savings account, and the odds are strongly in your favor that you will end up significantly better off by the time you no longer own the car.
I would not have much concern about a bumper that has been replaced. If it gives you peace of mind, have it checked out by a reputable body shop, but, otherwise, a replaced or repaired bumper should be insignificant, and the fact that the car is black is good because non-metallic black is, by far, the easiest color for which to match the paint on the new bumper with the color of the rest of the car.
As far as the two extended warranty options that you have mentioned, I would take a pass on both of them. The likelihood that, between the time that the CPO warranty (or the remainder of the factory power train warranty) ends and the time when coverage would end on either of those extended warranty options, you are going to have to spend $2000 or $3000 in repairs that would have been covered by the extended warranties is slim. Instead of buying the extended warranty, put $2000 or $3000 in an "emergency repair" savings account, and the odds are strongly in your favor that you will end up significantly better off by the time you no longer own the car.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
12-31-17, 04:40 PM
#7
A new UL with all the options mentioned is about 40k after all the incentives. This has been mentioned in other new car buyer thread. Not sure if the price is attractive with all the additional warranties, plus the bumper damage replacement may start to show (discoloration) after few years.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
Trending Topics
12-31-17, 04:56 PM
#8
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
First, the $31,500 price for a 2016 CPO UL package ES with 30,000 miles seems to be good price, and the new tires and brake pads are certainly a plus. I'm assuming, from what you have listed as optional equipment, that the car does not have the Safety Package, including the auto braking, radar cruise control, and lane departure warning. The Safety Package was not yet standard for the 2016 model year. If the car does have the Safety Package, the $31,500 price would be excellent.
I would not have much concern about a bumper that has been replaced. If it gives you peace of mind, have it checked out by a reputable body shop, but, otherwise, a replaced or repaired bumper should be insignificant, and the fact that the car is black is good because non-metallic black is, by far, the easiest color for which to match the paint on the new bumper with the color of the rest of the car.
As far as the two extended warranty options that you have mentioned, I would take a pass on both of them. The likelihood that, between the time that the CPO warranty (or the remainder of the factory power train warranty) ends and the time when coverage would end on either of those extended warranty options, you are going to have to spend $2000 or $3000 in repairs that would have been covered by the extended warranties is slim. Instead of buying the extended warranty, put $2000 or $3000 in an "emergency repair" savings account, and the odds are strongly in your favor that you will end up significantly better off by the time you no longer own the car.
I would not have much concern about a bumper that has been replaced. If it gives you peace of mind, have it checked out by a reputable body shop, but, otherwise, a replaced or repaired bumper should be insignificant, and the fact that the car is black is good because non-metallic black is, by far, the easiest color for which to match the paint on the new bumper with the color of the rest of the car.
As far as the two extended warranty options that you have mentioned, I would take a pass on both of them. The likelihood that, between the time that the CPO warranty (or the remainder of the factory power train warranty) ends and the time when coverage would end on either of those extended warranty options, you are going to have to spend $2000 or $3000 in repairs that would have been covered by the extended warranties is slim. Instead of buying the extended warranty, put $2000 or $3000 in an "emergency repair" savings account, and the odds are strongly in your favor that you will end up significantly better off by the time you no longer own the car.
A big thanks.
Yup, I forgot to mention that. The vehicle does come with Lexus Safety System+ w/Bi-LED Headlamps.
Also, about the extended warranty. I'm starting to lean towards not purchasing one.
The main reason for buying the ES was because of its reliability ratings.
In fact, it was either a 2016 ES or a new 2018 Toyota Camry V6. But I sat in both, and the ES was far more superior exterior and interior-wise.
The only thing the 2018 Camry V6 has on the ES is:
1. The 301 HP engine.
2. Slightly better fuel economy.
3. Bigger 7" LCD cluster.
4. Better / larger panoramic window.
5. 360 degree camera (which I thought was really cool).
6. HUD navigation.
7. Has a touch-screen infotainment system.
8. Might have better safety features (though I'm not 100% certain about this).
On the downside, the new Camry:
1. Has a refreshed powertrain, which I've heard people complaining about already (especially in regards to the new 8 speed transmission).
2. Direct injected engine, which I've heard isn't as reliable as non-direct injected engines (and seems expensive to fix).
3. Feels cheap inside and outside.
4. Feels cramped.
5. Uses a cheap / harder leather seats.
6. Is way more expensive (about $6.5K more) than the 2016 ES.
7. Has a less-extensive warranty.
8. Suffers from more interior wind / engine noise.
I haven't yet purchased the ES, but I plan to on the 2nd of January.
Hopefully there aren't any problems during the inspection.
Thanks for the advice and insights,
D.B.
12-31-17, 04:59 PM
#9
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
A new UL with all the options mentioned is about 40k after all the incentives. This has been mentioned in other new car buyer thread. Not sure if the price is attractive with all the additional warranties, plus the bumper damage replacement may start to show (discoloration) after few years.
I'm thinking you mean 50K rather than 40K, right?
I'm sure there are a few incentives going on now with the December to Remember sales event, but I'm pretty doubtful most people will be able to get a nearly 10K drop in price on a new 2018 Lexus ES (I could be wrong though).
Thanks,
D.B.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
12-31-17, 05:23 PM
#11
Lead Lap
Hello Yeskay,
I'm thinking you mean 50K rather than 40K, right?
I'm sure there are a few incentives going on now with the December to Remember sales event, but I'm pretty doubtful most people will be able to get a nearly 10K drop in price on a new 2018 Lexus ES (I could be wrong though).
Thanks,
D.B.
I'm thinking you mean 50K rather than 40K, right?
I'm sure there are a few incentives going on now with the December to Remember sales event, but I'm pretty doubtful most people will be able to get a nearly 10K drop in price on a new 2018 Lexus ES (I could be wrong though).
Thanks,
D.B.
I bought my 2017 UL ES with a MSRP of just over $50,000 in November of 2016. At that time, I could have bought a similarly equipped.leftover 2016 UL for about $40,000, and the offers that I got for the 2017 were in that $43,000-44,000 range. Ultimately, I chose the 2017 because I wanted the Generation 9 navigation system, and I know that, for the next several years, the re-sale or trade-in value of the 2017 will be $35000-40000 higher than that for the 2016. So, my net cost over the period of ownership for a 2017 will be roughly the same as it would have been for a 2016.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
12-31-17, 07:01 PM
#12
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
I suspect that he is talking about a new 2017 UL ES. That is about what people have been paying for them as the dealers try to eliminate any remaining 2017 inventory. I would expect that the best available prices on new 2018 UL ESs right now would be somewhere in the $43,000-44,000 range. The problem with buying a leftover 2017 would be that, at this point, inventories of 2017s should be low, and finding a car that is equipped the way you want it and with the interior and exterior colors that you want could be a challenge.
I bought my 2017 UL ES with a MSRP of just over $50,000 in November of 2016. At that time, I could have bought a similarly equipped.leftover 2016 UL for about $40,000, and the offers that I got for the 2017 were in that $43,000-44,000 range. Ultimately, I chose the 2017 because I wanted the Generation 9 navigation system, and I know that, for the next several years, the re-sale or trade-in value of the 2017 will be $35000-40000 higher than that for the 2016. So, my net cost over the period of ownership for a 2017 will be roughly the same as it would have been for a 2016.
I bought my 2017 UL ES with a MSRP of just over $50,000 in November of 2016. At that time, I could have bought a similarly equipped.leftover 2016 UL for about $40,000, and the offers that I got for the 2017 were in that $43,000-44,000 range. Ultimately, I chose the 2017 because I wanted the Generation 9 navigation system, and I know that, for the next several years, the re-sale or trade-in value of the 2017 will be $35000-40000 higher than that for the 2016. So, my net cost over the period of ownership for a 2017 will be roughly the same as it would have been for a 2016.
Can I assume the navigation system (generation 8) can be upgraded to generation 9 via a software update (of the vehicle's SD card - likely by the dealer)?
If so, can I assume it would be a fair thing to ask the dealer to do (for free) when I purchase the vehicle?
Thanks,
D.B.
12-31-17, 07:09 PM
#13
Lead Lap
No, that is not correct. It isn't just a software update. The hardware is different. You can update the maps in the Generation 8 system, but it will still be a Generation 8 system. The main improvements in the Generation 9 system relate to improved voice command capability. Also, the Generation 9 system can use a bird's eye map view.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (12-31-17)
12-31-17, 08:01 PM
#14
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
No, that is not correct. It isn't just a software update. The hardware is different. You can update the maps in the Generation 8 system, but it will still be a Generation 8 system. The main improvements in the Generation 9 system relate to improved voice command capability. Also, the Generation 9 system can use a bird's eye map view.
Just to be certain, when you say bird's eye view maps, you don't mean a 360 degree camera, correct (like on the 2018 Camry)?
Thanks,
B.D.
12-31-17, 08:08 PM
#15
Lead Lap
The bird's eye view just changes the map view to one where you are seeing the map view from an elevated angle. To me, that is no big deal, but I do appreciate the improvements in the Generation 9 navigation system with regard to voice command capabilities. And what is nice is that those improved voice command capabilities extend to the audio system and climate control system, as well as the navigation system.
Last edited by lesz; 12-31-17 at 08:13 PM.
The following users liked this post:
DanBryant (01-01-18)