Wandl

Background:
I work in sales and currently own a 2010 LS460. With a new territory next year that requires more time on the road, I'm entertaining the idea of getting a 2nd car that gets better gas mileage. Chances are, I'll probably keep my LS to keep the wife happy because she hates seeing me spend $$ on cars. But for fun's sake, with a budget of around $20-$24k I'm considering:
2013 ES300h/ES350
2013 Avalon/Avalon Hybrid
2014+ new-body-style Impala

Things that are near and dear to my heart = supple ride, noise insulation, reliability in that order. And with this vehicle, solid MPG obviously.

Why hybrid? After looking at some prices, the ES300h/Avalon Hybrid don't cost too much more than the 3.5L V6 gas counterparts.
Why Impala? Rented a 15 new-body-style LTZ for a week in Virginia, it drove wonderful! The new Impala uses the same chassis as the XTS and Lacrosse, got rave reviews and really changed my thinking on Chevy. Reliability is actually decent with a low cost of ownership/cost of repair as well.

SOOOOOO....my question to you ES350/ES300h owners, did you cross shop the Avalon and/or Impala before you bought your ES? What were your thoughts?

Maljunulo

I wouldn't buy any domestic automobile, but that's just me.

Mike728

I cross shopped the Avalon. The interior design and seat comfort were what steered me away from it. The redesigned Impalla wasn't available at the time, but I test drove a LaCrosse. It was not in the same league.

mjeds

steer clear of GM, I am a long time GM owner, I have owned 16 of them since 1986. I worked as an ASE tech for them (and Chrysler) for almost 20 years.

Until my Lexus I had never owned an import. I switched because the last 3 GM products I have owned (since their 2009 Bankruptcy) where all lemon law buy backs. Fool me once shame on you, fool me thrice same on me.. I'm done with GM.. and I advise anyone considering them to steer clear.

PAcommuter

It depends on how long you want to own the car and also resale value. I chose Lexus over Toyota because of resale value, and reliability. Go figure since Toyota is the parent company. Perhaps it's the buyers and how they care for their cars compared to the buyers of Camry or Avalon. I was not impressed with the drive comfort of the Impala nor the looks.

400to300H

Brand loyalty was usually strong for me just because I was so impressed with my first Lexus. All reviews I've read stated the Avalon is a better value, and near the same build quality, but I didnt consider anything but Lexus to replace a Lexus

PapaLeo

I was cross shopping Avalon Touring and Limited earlier this year for my wife vs. ES350.
I was personally not impressed with seat comfort of ES (too hard for my back), Avalon's seats felt much softer.
However, since it was a DD car for my wife, she choose ES350 since in her mind, Avalon was driving like a big boat (read: floating motions) which for person with a weak vestibular condition is a killer. ES350 drives solid, not harsh but solid, so that's what I got it for her.

Brent1944

Ill never own another American car period.. Reliability.. Lexus is owned by Toyota.. Ive owned them for years(Toyotas).. As far as Mileage.. Obviously the hybrid will get better mileage... but they do have a start stop function which is annoying.o..hybrids get better mileage in town cause they run on elec motor at low speeds... Lexus is more luxurious, I have a 2016 ES 350. Avalon and it are built on same platform. Camry too is an option.. But in any of them, the trunk space is compromised because of the hybrid battery.

mjeds

the biggest factor in resale is te total production number for a given model. American car companies produce large amounts of the low end model for fleet sales to car rental companies and companies and government that buy fleets of vehicles.

Honda and Toyota do not do this. you will not typically find Hondas or Toyotas in large quantities at car rental places, and with the exception of the Prius over the past few years you do not find fleets of import vehicles.

Police and Fire = Ford, Chrysler, and GM
Taxi's = Ford, Chrysler, and GM
Local Gov't Vehicles = Ford, Chrysler, and GM and a small percentage of Prius'
Major Car Rental places buy Ford, Chrysler, and GM low end models in large quantities, while there are the occasional Camry's, Accords, and Altima's found the ratio is something like 45:1 American over Import fleet sales. Honda doesn't even allow Fleet sales, if you see a Honda as a rental there is a good chance it was purchased at retail price.

Fillykonk

I cross-shopped the Avalon as well. While I probably could have been happy with one, believe it or not, here in FL at the time the incentives were better on the ES so I went that route and have no regrets!

pab12

>I cross-shopped the Avalon as well.
Me, too. But, ES350 was SO MUCH nicer inside and that sealed the deal.
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2

Maljunulo

I had a chance to compare, when one parked next to us yesterday.

Obviously, all I could do was look in the windows, but the internal appointments were nothing like the Lexus.

The Avalon had a nice interior, but it couldn't hold a candle to the Lexus interior.

I've never driven an Avalon, so I can't comment any further.

Wandl

hahahahahaaha

Thanks all for your thoughts. I'm going to take a spin this weekend in both. Just for comparison's sake on the hybrid powertrain for one moment, for $24k I could get a
2013 CPO Avalon Hybrid Limited (adaptive cruise, pre-coll) with 40k miles
2013 Es300H with 63k miles with nav, luxury package but not ultra luxury

On paper, same chassis, same powertrain, obviously different refinement but at least the ES300h has leather.

lesz

I had a 2013 ES and now have a 2017 ES. With having all of my service work done at the local Toyota dealer, I've had several opportunities to drive Avalon loaners.

Besides nicer interior materials, what I found as being a noticeable difference between the ES and the Avalon was the amount of noise from the road and engine that enters the cabin. The ES has more/better sound insulation. Also, I recall seeing an article (it may have been a video) from Lexus in which they explained about how much tighter the tolerances with respect to fits and finishes are for the ES than what they are for the Avalon. If you compare the fits and finishes, both exterior and in the cabin, you can see that the tolerances with the ES are, in fact, noticeably tighter than those for the Avalon.

Also, note that, even though you will pay a premium for the ES over the Avalon, a good portion of that premium does come back to you when you trade/sell the car because the ES will retain a higher percentage of its initial value than will the Avalon.

Fillykonk

That is true. The better deal was icing on the cake in going that route!