MSRP Discounts....am I crazy?
11-13-16, 10:11 AM
#136
I've had a 2013 that I've been very happy with during the 3 1/2 years that I've owned it. My plan had been to keep it until the introduction of the Generation 7 ES in either 2018 or 2019, but I'm now considering trading it for a 2016 that remains in inventory or a new 2017.
At the current time, I think that car sales are generally down significantly, and, from my early research, I'm seeing more aggressive discounting in pricing than I've seen at any point since the Generation 6 ES was introduced. I'm looking for an UL ES with an MSRP somewhere in the range of $49,000 and $50,000. I've contacted 7 different Lexus dealers within reasonable driving distance for me. For a 2016, I'm being offered prices with approximately a $9000 discount (including the Lexus rebate), and for a 2017, I'm being offered prices with discounts around $4500 (including the smaller $1000 Lexus rebate for the 2017 ES). And those prices are the initial offers from the dealers, and I have not yet made any attempts that would lower the initially offered prices. At least 2 of the dealers have invited me to make an offer lower than their initial offers to me. I should also point out that I'm in Illinois, and, typically, ES pricing in the Midwest has been significantly higher than in other regions, especially parts of California and Texas, and I'll also point out that those offers are without any high mark-up dealer add-ons, extended warranties, etc. that dealers typically use to inflate their profits. Further, this would be a straight cash deal. So, neither Lexus nor the dealer would be adding to its profit with financing or leasing terms.
I suspect that I'll be pulling the trigger in a handful of days. My main decision at this point is likely to be whether to buy a 2016 for about $4000 less than a 2017. I figure that I could buy the 2016 for about $4000 less than I'd pay for the 2017, but the re-sale/trade-in value of the 2017 will be several thousand dollars higher than that of the 2016 for at least a few years. I'd also like to hope that, by this time, the Kentucky production facility has had a chance to work out any glitches that they may have had in their first year of producing the ES, and that hope is a point in favor of going with the 2017. I know, too, that I could likely get a marginally better price on a 2017 if I were to wait until the end of December to do the deal, but I don't plan to be driving the car during the winter, and I want to have the car in my possession and ready to put into the garage before the snow flies and I have to drive the car, even if just from the dealership, on roads that have been treated with salt.
In any case, it does seem to me that the current market conditions are such that they have made this a better time to buy a Generation 6 ES than at any previous time.
At the current time, I think that car sales are generally down significantly, and, from my early research, I'm seeing more aggressive discounting in pricing than I've seen at any point since the Generation 6 ES was introduced. I'm looking for an UL ES with an MSRP somewhere in the range of $49,000 and $50,000. I've contacted 7 different Lexus dealers within reasonable driving distance for me. For a 2016, I'm being offered prices with approximately a $9000 discount (including the Lexus rebate), and for a 2017, I'm being offered prices with discounts around $4500 (including the smaller $1000 Lexus rebate for the 2017 ES). And those prices are the initial offers from the dealers, and I have not yet made any attempts that would lower the initially offered prices. At least 2 of the dealers have invited me to make an offer lower than their initial offers to me. I should also point out that I'm in Illinois, and, typically, ES pricing in the Midwest has been significantly higher than in other regions, especially parts of California and Texas, and I'll also point out that those offers are without any high mark-up dealer add-ons, extended warranties, etc. that dealers typically use to inflate their profits. Further, this would be a straight cash deal. So, neither Lexus nor the dealer would be adding to its profit with financing or leasing terms.
I suspect that I'll be pulling the trigger in a handful of days. My main decision at this point is likely to be whether to buy a 2016 for about $4000 less than a 2017. I figure that I could buy the 2016 for about $4000 less than I'd pay for the 2017, but the re-sale/trade-in value of the 2017 will be several thousand dollars higher than that of the 2016 for at least a few years. I'd also like to hope that, by this time, the Kentucky production facility has had a chance to work out any glitches that they may have had in their first year of producing the ES, and that hope is a point in favor of going with the 2017. I know, too, that I could likely get a marginally better price on a 2017 if I were to wait until the end of December to do the deal, but I don't plan to be driving the car during the winter, and I want to have the car in my possession and ready to put into the garage before the snow flies and I have to drive the car, even if just from the dealership, on roads that have been treated with salt.
In any case, it does seem to me that the current market conditions are such that they have made this a better time to buy a Generation 6 ES than at any previous time.
sounds like you have done your research thoroughly! one point and 2 questions:
1) "My main decision at this point is likely to be whether to buy a 2016 for about $4000 less than a 2017 with the knowledge that the resale/jtrade-in value of that 2016 will be several thousand dollars lower than that of a 2017 for at least the next few years." -I assume you are purchasing, not leasing. As you imply - the weight of this decision depends on how long you plan to keep the car. If going to sell/trade it in within 2-4 years, this is a concern. If going to keep it a long time, say 7-10 years, I think it loses importance and the value of saving $4000 now takes precedence and is the key factor! Overall, I suspect saving $4000 now on a 2016 is better as long as you keep the car 4 or more years, given that there is no change in the 2017 car from 2016. consider the opportunity cost/benefit of having $4000 NOW versus getting back a couple thousand dollars on resale in 4-5 years. For me, give me the $4000 NOW!
2) In your test drive, how much difference do you see in ride, comfort between the 2013 and the 2016/2017?
3) I'm assuming there are other factors to upgrade, perhaps you dont have on your 2013 some of the latest safety and tech items? curious as to your decision to upgrade the car a couple years earlier than your original plan?
11-13-16, 10:39 AM
#137
Lead Lap
Hi lesz,
sounds like you have done your research thoroughly! one point and 2 questions:
1) "My main decision at this point is likely to be whether to buy a 2016 for about $4000 less than a 2017 with the knowledge that the resale/jtrade-in value of that 2016 will be several thousand dollars lower than that of a 2017 for at least the next few years." -I assume you are purchasing, not leasing. As you imply - the weight of this decision depends on how long you plan to keep the car. If going to sell/trade it in within 2-4 years, this is a concern. If going to keep it a long time, say 7-10 years, I think it loses importance and the value of saving $4000 now takes precedence and is the key factor! Overall, I suspect saving $4000 now on a 2016 is better as long as you keep the car 4 or more years, given that there is no change in the 2017 car from 2016. consider the opportunity cost/benefit of having $4000 NOW versus getting back a couple thousand dollars on resale in 4-5 years. For me, give me the $4000 NOW!
2) In your test drive, how much difference do you see in ride, comfort between the 2013 and the 2016/2017?
3) I'm assuming there are other factors to upgrade, perhaps you dont have on your 2013 some of the latest safety and tech items? curious as to your decision to upgrade the car a couple years earlier than your original plan?
sounds like you have done your research thoroughly! one point and 2 questions:
1) "My main decision at this point is likely to be whether to buy a 2016 for about $4000 less than a 2017 with the knowledge that the resale/jtrade-in value of that 2016 will be several thousand dollars lower than that of a 2017 for at least the next few years." -I assume you are purchasing, not leasing. As you imply - the weight of this decision depends on how long you plan to keep the car. If going to sell/trade it in within 2-4 years, this is a concern. If going to keep it a long time, say 7-10 years, I think it loses importance and the value of saving $4000 now takes precedence and is the key factor! Overall, I suspect saving $4000 now on a 2016 is better as long as you keep the car 4 or more years, given that there is no change in the 2017 car from 2016. consider the opportunity cost/benefit of having $4000 NOW versus getting back a couple thousand dollars on resale in 4-5 years. For me, give me the $4000 NOW!
2) In your test drive, how much difference do you see in ride, comfort between the 2013 and the 2016/2017?
3) I'm assuming there are other factors to upgrade, perhaps you dont have on your 2013 some of the latest safety and tech items? curious as to your decision to upgrade the car a couple years earlier than your original plan?
Most likely, I'll keep the car for 3-4 years. At that time, there will still be about $3000-4000 difference between the value of used 2017 and a used 2016. At this point, inventories of 2016 UL vehicles are getting pretty low. So, if I go with the 2017, I can pretty much get the exact car that I want. With a 2016, I can come close, but I'm not likely to get exactly what I want. You are right in saying that, if I was going to keep the car for 7-10 years, the re-sale/trade value difference between a 2016 and 2017 would be insignificant, but it is unlikely that I will keep it that long. For me, it is irrelevant whether I save the $4000 now or whether I get it back in increased trade value for a 2017. With interest rates where they are now, it really doesn't make much difference whether the money is in the bank or in the car.
The two differences between the 2016 and 2017 cars are that, with the 2017, the Safety+ system is included, and, with the 2016, it is an option, and the 2017 has the Scout GPS link, which allows integration between navigation and other smart phone apps and the car's audio system. I'm not sure how much I would use that, but, for some reason, I'd like to have it and give it an extended testing period. One other concern that I have about going with a 2016 is that I'm quite particular about fits and finishes. The remaining 2016s have been in dealer inventories for a couple of months or more, and I have a concern about minor scratches that a vehicle could have picked up over time sitting on a dealer's lot or things like stone nicks that could have been picked up during test drives.
Yes, my desire to make the deal is based on some of the features in the 2016 mid-cycle re-fresh (even though I have to admit that there are some of those changes that I thoroughly dislike), Also, even though I really like my 2013 ES, the 2013 is a luxury package vehicle, and there is a part of me that wishes that I had gotten the UL package. Also, in 2013, the features in the safety package were either unavailable or only available at a very high price. I would really appreciate having them on a 2016 or 2017.
At this point, I think that my decision between the 2016 and the 2017 will depend on how much closer I can get the 2017 price to that of the 2016. If I can get to within, say, $2500, it will be, for me, a no-brainer to pick the 2017.
Also, I know that, if I wait until 2018 or 2019, I could get what I wanted in a Generation 7 ES, but, by then, the value of my 2013 will have depreciated even further, too.
Last edited by lesz; 11-14-16 at 05:28 AM.
11-13-16, 11:06 PM
#138
I have not yet driven a 2017. The closest dealer to me is 100 miles away, and the dealers that I've contacted are anywhere from 100-150 miles from me and they are all in different directions. That is why I want to have my "ducks in a row" and be confident that I have a firm deal before I set out to a dealership. I don't, however, expect to see much difference in the ride/comfort between the new car and the 2013, except for the fact that the new vehicle will have the 18 inch wheels, and my 2013 has the 17 inch wheels. I really would prefer to have the 17 inch wheels, and I haven't decided, yet, whether I will ask the dealer to swap the 18s on the new car for 17s.
Most likely, I'll keep the car for 3-4 years. At that time, there will still be about $3000-4000 difference between the value of used 2017 and a used 2016. At this point, inventories of 2016 UL vehicles are getting pretty low. So, if I go with the 2017, I can pretty much get the exact car that I want. With a 2016, I can come close, but I'm not likely to get exactly what I want. You are right in saying that, if I was going to keep the car for 7-10 years, the re-sale/trade value difference between a 2016 and 2017 would be insignificant, but it is unlikely that I will keep it that long. For me, it is irrelevant whether I save the $4000 now or whether I get it back in increased trade value for a 2017. With interest rates where they are now, it really doesn't make much difference whether the money is in the bank or in the car.
The two differences between the 2016 and 2017 cars are that, with the 2017, the Safety+ system is included, and, with the 2016, it is an option, and the 2017 has the Scout GPS link, which allows integration between navigation and other smart phone apps and the car's audio system. I'm not sure how much I would use that, but, for some reason, I'd like to have it and give it an extended testing period. One other concern that I have about going with a 2016 is that I'm quite particular about fits and finishes. The remaining 2016s have been in dealer inventories for a couple of months or more, and I have a concern about minor scratches that a vehicle could have picked up over time sitting on a dealer's lot or things like stone nicks that could have been picked up during test drives.
Yes, my desire to make the deal is based on some of the features in the 2016 mid-cycle re-fresh (even though I have to admit that there are some of those changes that I thoroughly dislike), Also, even though I really like my 2013 ES, the 2013 is a luxury package vehicle, and there is a part of me that wishes that I had gotten the UL package. Also, in 2013, the features in the safety package where either unavailable or only available at a very high price. I would really appreciate having them on a 2016 or 2017.
At this point, I think that my decision between the 2016 and the 2017 will depend on how much closer I can get the 2017 price to that of the 2016. If I can get to within, say, $2500, it will be, for me, a no-brainer to pick the 2017.
Also, I know that, if I wait until 2018 or 2019, I could get what I wanted in a Generation 7 ES, but, by then, the value of my 2013 will have depreciated even further, too.
Most likely, I'll keep the car for 3-4 years. At that time, there will still be about $3000-4000 difference between the value of used 2017 and a used 2016. At this point, inventories of 2016 UL vehicles are getting pretty low. So, if I go with the 2017, I can pretty much get the exact car that I want. With a 2016, I can come close, but I'm not likely to get exactly what I want. You are right in saying that, if I was going to keep the car for 7-10 years, the re-sale/trade value difference between a 2016 and 2017 would be insignificant, but it is unlikely that I will keep it that long. For me, it is irrelevant whether I save the $4000 now or whether I get it back in increased trade value for a 2017. With interest rates where they are now, it really doesn't make much difference whether the money is in the bank or in the car.
The two differences between the 2016 and 2017 cars are that, with the 2017, the Safety+ system is included, and, with the 2016, it is an option, and the 2017 has the Scout GPS link, which allows integration between navigation and other smart phone apps and the car's audio system. I'm not sure how much I would use that, but, for some reason, I'd like to have it and give it an extended testing period. One other concern that I have about going with a 2016 is that I'm quite particular about fits and finishes. The remaining 2016s have been in dealer inventories for a couple of months or more, and I have a concern about minor scratches that a vehicle could have picked up over time sitting on a dealer's lot or things like stone nicks that could have been picked up during test drives.
Yes, my desire to make the deal is based on some of the features in the 2016 mid-cycle re-fresh (even though I have to admit that there are some of those changes that I thoroughly dislike), Also, even though I really like my 2013 ES, the 2013 is a luxury package vehicle, and there is a part of me that wishes that I had gotten the UL package. Also, in 2013, the features in the safety package where either unavailable or only available at a very high price. I would really appreciate having them on a 2016 or 2017.
At this point, I think that my decision between the 2016 and the 2017 will depend on how much closer I can get the 2017 price to that of the 2016. If I can get to within, say, $2500, it will be, for me, a no-brainer to pick the 2017.
Also, I know that, if I wait until 2018 or 2019, I could get what I wanted in a Generation 7 ES, but, by then, the value of my 2013 will have depreciated even further, too.
the drive between the 2017 and 2016 are not going to be any different as far as drive feel etc as its the same car. The differences, as you mention, will be in features/tech, as to what is included and not included...
I can see the rationale to upgrade to get into the UL. It sure is a nice package
I would agree that the key is to get the car you want with the options you want. If there is a 2016 out there with what you want, great! if not, then I agree, better to go with the 2017
there's nothing more annoying than buying a car, then realizing you left out an option that you really wanted to have......
12-07-16, 03:26 AM
#139
Driver School Candidate
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I got an offer on 2016 ES 350 no navigation (msrp $43,711), OTD price of $37,159. Im in michigan.
this particular model is built here in USA. Any thoughts. Thanks.
this particular model is built here in USA. Any thoughts. Thanks.
12-07-16, 04:47 AM
#140
OTD price is kind of useless on a forum that has members from all over. What is the negotiated price, before tax, title, etc...?
12-07-16, 06:19 AM
#141
Lead Lap
Also, at this point, dealers are likely to be wanting to rid themselves of any remaining 2016 inventory. Note, though, that for the next several years, the used value of a 2016 ES will be a few/several thousand less than the used value of 2017. When I saw that I could buy a new 2017 for within $3000 of what I was being offered for a 2016, it made more sense to me to buy the 2017.
Finally, if you want to buy the 2016 without navigation, you should be able to get a particularly good deal on that car. ES buyers are often willing to live without features like the pano roof, semi-aniline leather, ML sound, etc., but an ES without navigation has much lower demand than one with navigation. On both new car lots and used car lots, the non-navigation vehicles will sit there the longest, and those are the cars that the dealers are likely to have to discount the most to be able to move them off of their lots. Also note that, if you buy a non-navigation ES, you are likely to have to take a significant hit at trade-in or re-sale time because used ES buyers typically want navigation systems, and used car managers know that a non-navigation ES is likely to sit on their lots much longer than one with navigation.
12-07-16, 05:41 PM
#142
Last Friday I sat in a showroom full of cars with windshield tags saying things like "WAS $60,000 ......... NOW some number I don't remember."
I really didn't pay attention, because I was buying a CPO vehicle.
I really didn't pay attention, because I was buying a CPO vehicle.
12-08-16, 04:53 AM
#143
05-30-17, 07:54 AM
#145
Lexus Test Driver
Reviving this old thread as there have been some active discussions around 2017 ES pricing, I assume Lexus is going to revamp the ES in 2019 (leveraging the 2018 Camry's TNGA platform) plus sedan volumes are going down, I would assume there would be better pricing towards 2nd half of 2017 for the ES.
Just for comparison's sake, Toyota probably would revamp the Avalon as well for 2019 given that ES is on the same architecture as the Avalon
Just for comparison's sake, Toyota probably would revamp the Avalon as well for 2019 given that ES is on the same architecture as the Avalon
06-03-17, 09:18 AM
#146
Reviving this old thread as there have been some active discussions around 2017 ES pricing, I assume Lexus is going to revamp the ES in 2019 (leveraging the 2018 Camry's TNGA platform) plus sedan volumes are going down, I would assume there would be better pricing towards 2nd half of 2017 for the ES.
Just for comparison's sake, Toyota probably would revamp the Avalon as well for 2019 given that ES is on the same architecture as the Avalon
Just for comparison's sake, Toyota probably would revamp the Avalon as well for 2019 given that ES is on the same architecture as the Avalon
06-03-17, 10:33 AM
#147
Lead Lap
Note that, as of the beginning of June, there is a new manufacturer's rebate available on the 2017 ES (and most other Lexus models). After having had a rebate on the 2017 ES through the end of February, there had not been any rebates available for the last few months.
The current rebate is $1000. I would expect that, as we move toward August, somewhat larger advertised rebates will be available from Lexus. Also, that is when significant unadvertised holdbacks will be available to dealers to help them to reduce their remaining 2017 inventories and to prepare for the arrival of the 2018 vehicles. All of this should give the dealers significantly greater negotiating room than they have had up to now in the model year.
The current rebate is $1000. I would expect that, as we move toward August, somewhat larger advertised rebates will be available from Lexus. Also, that is when significant unadvertised holdbacks will be available to dealers to help them to reduce their remaining 2017 inventories and to prepare for the arrival of the 2018 vehicles. All of this should give the dealers significantly greater negotiating room than they have had up to now in the model year.
06-21-17, 09:14 AM
#148
Driver School Candidate
As this forum has been a tremendous help to me during my negotiations, I wanted to share my pricing information. Over the weekend, I traded in my 2017 ES and leased a 2017 ES 350:
MSRP: $46,383 (Luxury Pkg, Navi Pkg, Rear Spoiler, Bi Led Headlamps, BSM, Intuitive Parking Asst, Power Trunk, etc.)
Purchase Price: $37,800 (19% off MSRP, includes Discounts and Rebates)
Lease Payment: $310 (36/10 lease w/$3,000 down)
MSRP: $46,383 (Luxury Pkg, Navi Pkg, Rear Spoiler, Bi Led Headlamps, BSM, Intuitive Parking Asst, Power Trunk, etc.)
Purchase Price: $37,800 (19% off MSRP, includes Discounts and Rebates)
Lease Payment: $310 (36/10 lease w/$3,000 down)
06-21-17, 09:58 AM
#149
Lexus Test Driver
As this forum has been a tremendous help to me during my negotiations, I wanted to share my pricing information. Over the weekend, I traded in my 2017 ES and leased a 2017 ES 350:
MSRP: $46,383 (Luxury Pkg, Navi Pkg, Rear Spoiler, Bi Led Headlamps, BSM, Intuitive Parking Asst, Power Trunk, etc.)
Purchase Price: $37,800 (19% off MSRP, includes Discounts and Rebates)
Lease Payment: $310 (36/10 lease w/$3,000 down)
MSRP: $46,383 (Luxury Pkg, Navi Pkg, Rear Spoiler, Bi Led Headlamps, BSM, Intuitive Parking Asst, Power Trunk, etc.)
Purchase Price: $37,800 (19% off MSRP, includes Discounts and Rebates)
Lease Payment: $310 (36/10 lease w/$3,000 down)
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TxESDriver (06-21-17)
06-23-17, 02:05 PM
#150
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: CA
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I live in SoCal, and I think that the negotiation with dealers isn't going well.
I'm looking into 2 options right now. 1) base 2017 ES 350, MSRP $40k 2) 2017 ES 350 w/ premium pkg, parking assist, blind spot assit and etc. MSRP around $42.5k
The best offer so far I got from the dealers is $35,400 and $37,700 for the respective vehicle configuration.
They put me at 12% off MSRP for the base ES 350 and again 12% off MSRP on the ES350 with premium pkg.
Looking at this thread, I'm not getting as much as discount as other people are. Am I doing quite bad?
BTW, these numbers are before $1,000 cash, which I'm going to opt out as I prefer getting 0% APR on 60 months financing.
Did anyone in SoCal get a better deal? If so, could you please kindly share the name of the dealer?
I'm looking into 2 options right now. 1) base 2017 ES 350, MSRP $40k 2) 2017 ES 350 w/ premium pkg, parking assist, blind spot assit and etc. MSRP around $42.5k
The best offer so far I got from the dealers is $35,400 and $37,700 for the respective vehicle configuration.
They put me at 12% off MSRP for the base ES 350 and again 12% off MSRP on the ES350 with premium pkg.
Looking at this thread, I'm not getting as much as discount as other people are. Am I doing quite bad?
BTW, these numbers are before $1,000 cash, which I'm going to opt out as I prefer getting 0% APR on 60 months financing.
Did anyone in SoCal get a better deal? If so, could you please kindly share the name of the dealer?