Brake pedal feel, engine on and off.
 

I have upgraded to a 2007 Lexus ES 350 with more than a quarter of a million miles, still a sweet ride. There appears to be something wrong with the brakes though, with the engine off two pumps of the brake pedal and the pedal firms up quite nicely, pedal down maybe a 1/3 of the way. Holding the brake pressure and starting the engine the pedal goes down nearly to the floor. I have repeated this experiment with my truck and my wife's car and with these vehicles the pedal goes down but not nearly as much as the Lexus. I think my brother in law replaced the master cylinder or the brake booster, in either case no special brake bleeding was done with regards to the ABS system, he bleed the brakes the "normal" way.

My first step trying to fix the problem was to bleed the brakes like I have done in the past but that did not change anything. Googling turned up info that special techniques were required to properly bleed the ABS system. Not having the proper tools I drove the car on grass and activated the ABS system 15 or so times. I then repeated the brake bleeding, having someone pump and hold while I bled the brakes, farthest brake first, but no air and the brake pedal still does not feel right. The car stops but the pedal seems like it is going down too far. So the pedal seems firm with the engine off but goes nearly to the floor with the engine on.

I welcome any suggestions on how to proceed? I am reluctant to take it to a dealer or a mechanic just yet, I never have and I don't want to now.

Thank you.

I just tried this my 08. First pump, pedal goes all the way to the floor. Second pump, about 2/3 way to the floor. 3rd pump about the same as the 2nd pump maybe a little less. Left my foot pushing on the pedal and started the car, pedal goes to down to the floor. I think this is normal for this vehicle. I did not attempt to actual drive the car around.

Air in the system or bad the main cylinder.

It is normal or we both need work? Thank you.

If air in the system can you confirm that special equipment is needed to bleed the brakes? Thank you.

You can do it with Techstream or one can press the pedal and one can open/close the bleeding bolt.

You will probably get a better bleed using a Mityvac Fluid Evacuator/Brake Bleeder, Pneumatic - 07300. It uses a vacuum to pull the brake fluid through. No need to pump the pedal. It is a one person operation. They even have a reservoir that attaches to the master cylinder to increase its capacity so you do not have to check the level or worry about running dry when bleeding.

However you probably should have a professional tech inspect your brakes as they are a critical safety system and you need to be able to stop properly.

If it doesn't sink all the way down it's normal for a lexus es. The pedal is always kinda sponggy if you push too hard. Just bleed the brakes the normal way if you think there is air in the system. Also there is very little fluid in the abs system so you don't even need to activate it.