cb109

Would you buy a 2007 ES 350 right before the factory recommended service at 192,000 km?

The maintenance schedule mentions:

• Maintenance Service
• Replace Engine Air Filter
• Replace Super Long Life Coolant
• Replace Automatic Transmission Fluid
• Replace Iridium Spark Plugs
• Replace Cabin Air Filter
• Replace Brake Fluid

It is listed at a pretty low price at 190,500 km, and I guess now I know why. This little "detail" wasn't mentioned. The seller says all scheduled maintenance has been done at the dealer and has the records.

Any ideas how much this would cost (in Canada)? In addition there's the worry of what else a service call might find wrong.

cb109

Went to see it and had it test driven. The maintenance records were kept meticulously and the owner was very open about the little flaws here and there. Things like stone chips in the windshield and hood, minor scratches repainted, front bumper repainted. It seems for its age it is in pretty good condition and has been well cared for almost always at the dealer.

The test drive showed a tendency to pull to the right, something I've read about on the forum. The owner claimed never to have noticed it.

Also, it was mentioned that one single shock absorber in the rear was changed many years ago due to a defect. The rest of the suspension hasn't been changed.

It seems decent and the price is quite attractive (cheaper than V6 Camrys). Just a bit worried about the steering pull, and any surprises that might come out of the upcoming scheduled maintenance. Of course a pre-purchase inspection would be done (should that be done at a dealer?).

I also called a Lexus dealer asking about the prices for the list of possible service at that scheduled maintenance and they gave me a breakdown totalling over $1k (and wasn't clear if it included labor!), but also said that was just a list of things to check and that the actual work done would depend on the condition of the vehicle. i.e. it could be less.. or more.

Any yays or nays or thoughts on this ES?

Riick

I have a 2007 ES350 - No need to take the car to Lexis dealer, where you will be charged well OVER top dollar.
Engine and underpinnings are all Toyota part numbers, think about using Toyota dealer, or, less expensive: an independent shop.

• Replace Engine Air Filter
• $20 item - DIY (10 minute job if you own a metric socket wrench set - Ultra cheap version under $15)

• Replace Super Long Life Coolant (do Upper and Lower hoses at same time)
• Shouldn't cost more than $150 for fluid alone, extra $50-$75 -with new hoses- at any garage

• Replace Automatic Transmission Fluid
• It's supposed to be "Lifetime Fluid" - but changing it *is* a good idea - Cost in the $200 range

• Replace Iridium Spark Plugs
• Plugs aren't cheap at $7-$10 each, labor intensive since they have to remove intake manifold. ? $400 ?

• Replace Cabin Air Filter
• Another $10-$20 item - DIY - look in owners manual, only need a screwdriver

• Replace Brake Fluid
• Any shop can do this - Cost $50-$75

cb109

Thanks, I'll definitely have to look into the cost vs quality of alternatives, and figure out which aspects to DIY. Definitely air filters are a no brainer: the dealer quoted $70 each!

This vehicle has a very well-documented service history at the dealer, so in some ways it would be tempting to keep that up.

I found out the spark plugs have been changed at ~145,000 km, so they're probably still ok. The ATF was also done (but only 4 litres?) several years ago (forgot at what mileage).

Btw, ATF change is part of the regular maintenance schedule at every ~96,000 km on https://www.lexus.ca/lexus/en/mainta...nance-schedule

Does the single (rear) shock absorber replacement seems strange to anyone? Could it cause the vehicle to pull to one side? And how long does the original suspension typically last on the ES?

ESh

You can do it all by yourself. A lotta DIY’s out there.

cb109

All? I guess if you're a mechanic.

Do you do your own spark plugs (removing manifold?), coolant replacement, and ATF? In particular, didn't the ATF require special equipment from Toyota and strict temperature control? I think someone had posted a video about it.

Riick

On the ATF, you can (1) put Techstream on your laptop and monitor transmission temperature that way, or (2) buy a $20 infrared temperature reader, and get temperature from transmission pan, or, (3) there's a gimmick with shorting pins on the OBD connector, where transmission temperature indication will show up on instrument panel. The job is a PITA, compared to the days when we had a dipstick, especially since you need to work from below, and car must be *level*, so it would need to be on a lift, or up on 4 identical jackstands.

I keep thinking/wondering whether the ATF fill port is exactly where the ATF dipstick tube once lived, and whether it's possible to mount a dipstick tube into that 24mm fill port. <shrug>

cb109

Thanks for those tips and tricks. Definitely sounds like a PITA and maybe not worth it for someone without the required tools/jackstands, especially since the ATF flush isn't frequent like oil changes.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if anyone has compared the internal temperature reading with that of an infrared thermometer on the transmission pan. I'm not sure it would be the same.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

^For like the $300 versus the $100 in materials/ possibility of grenading your transmission, the automatic transmission fluid service is the one thing that I will always pay the dealer for. It's honestly like a $200-300 difference at most between having them do it, and doing it yourself.

chuyrobles

He has, I have, many others here in forums have also, and we are not certified mechanics - well, some may be but have not stated so; I'm not but have always worked my own cars. As you suspect, there are required tools but nothing special that can't be obtained in most auto parts stores. On our ES350, I've also replaced the water pump, a front wheel bearing, alternator, radiator, thermostat, lower control arm, idler/tensioner pulley bearings, a ball joint, starter, motor mounts, and other little things. The biggest expense, tool wise, has been an $80 tool set to service the wheel bearing.

I've done two ATF flushes, and an ATF filter replacement. There are no special tools to do this, but there is a special procedure. Find the thread by LjeksesES on how to go about this. As you suggested in a subsequent thread, I used an IR reader to read the ATF temp. It's accurate enough for the Toyota ATF flush procedure on cars with no dip stick. Have also done two ATF flushes on my Tacoma that uses the same ATF and also has no dip stick.

So car pulls to the right...all left hand-drive cars should drive straight or veer to the right - it's a safety setting in case you fall asleep at the wheel while driving. It shouldn't pull hard to the right but it is normal to veer right. All my Toyota vehicles exhibit this tendency.

cb109

Out of curiosity, those repairs were over what period of time, and on an ES350 of what age? Is there any difference between the maintenance cost of an ES350 and a Camry?

I have a hard time believing that. If, heaven forbid, you fall asleep at the wheel, do you prefer to stay straight in your lane or veer out of it?

chuyrobles

Well, you're not likely to wake up if you continue driving straight until you run off the road on a curve, or hit oncoming traffic. This what I read in a trade journal many moons ago.


From my notes:

105000 01/10/13 ATF flush (WS); 894 reverse light mod
117910 02/20/13 Spark plugs NGK Iridium LFR6AIX-11 (6619); AF
118500 03/02/13 KYC radiator (OEM leaked at top section); Gates belt
132000 10/26/13 Brake pads; OEM turned rotors
133050 11/16/13 CSF radiator (KYC refunded under warranty); coolant flush
138217 02/26/14 VVTi Oil lines (Allan Family Automotive)
155050 11/02/15 Alternator (Oreillys); Idler pulleys; coolant (radiator only); belt
157800 02/27/15 ATF flush (Valvoline MaxLife); ATF filter
173000 12/19/15 Front brake rotors/pads-Maxbrakes; Front brake kit-ACDelco
173800 01/10/16 Thermostat and coolant flush
174100 01/16/16 Rear engine torque strut mount (DEA $35)
178970 04/27/16 Alternator replacement under warranty
180450 05/21/16 AC Delco Rotors
182400 07/04/16 Brake fluid flush
184291 08/10/16 installed resurfaced Max rotors
184845 08/20/16 Pass side lower BJ (Moog) and pass wheel bearing & hub (Dura kit)
186113 09/10/16 Brake pads (Oreilly’s Select) and resurfaced AC Delco rotors
187460 10/08/16 Lower control arms (with bushings); left BJ; Sway arm links. OE Brands/FPD sold by MacAutoParts.net
188240 10/22/16 Rear pads (Wagner) and rear rotors (Dura)
191720 01/15/17 pass wheel hub (Dorman) and wheel bearing (Timken).
197770 05/21/17 Rear engine torque strut mount (eBay autoenginemounts).
207215 12/16/17 Plugs (NGK Iridium); OEM PCV valve; AF.
207540 12/30/17 Replaced PCV and a 5/16 ID vacuum hoses;
207630 01/03/18 Replaced #2 & #4 coils with AA Ignition 9091902251 coils; #6 has AutoZone coil.
208028 01/13/18 OEM front engine motor mount
210190 03/03/18 PS flush. replaced return line.
211500 04/14/16 Replaced outer motor mounts
211775 04/19/18 Pass side CV axle, Cardone 66-5265 ($60 Amz); seal Napa 16194 (SKF).
218980 09/23/18 Water pump (Aisin); thermostat (Motorad); coolant (SuperTech); Tensioner Pulley (ACDelco 36174)
219140 09/26/18 ATF Flush
220000 11/27/18 Replaced bad AA Ignition coil with Yec Flamma IGC112F

Some after notes:
Alternator - The alternator failure was preventable - you see, it has a decoupler pulley and the inside mechanism froze one day; the heat it generated fried the alternator - it's a serviceable item that is not mentioned in the maintenance schedule. Gates recommends replacing it every 100k.

Wheel bearing - the wife drove over a curb on passenger side - hard enough to rupture the front tire. Even though the car rode fine after the tire was replaced, such a hard hit puts a strain on the wheel bearing and lower ball joint. I replaced it a second time because I felt a slight shimmy and the replacement hub had a slight run-out. However, it turned out to be fine; it was the passenger side CV axle that was the culprit.

CV axle - I misdiagnosed a bad passenger-side axle. I replaced the front front rotors when I didn't have to. Also replaced the three motor mounts; the outside ones were fine, but the middle one (next to radiator) was broken.

Ignition Coil - Before I started taking notes, Ignition coil #6 went bad somewhere around 80K. I replaced it with a lifetime warranty Aurozone coil. It's still running well, but I would recommend Yec Flamma coils; they are made in Japan and I trust them over Chinese vendors.

cb109

Wow thanks for those detailed notes and explanations! This is a post to keep handy.

For a car known for reliability that seems like a pretty long list, even though most of it is maintenance. I take it you like being pre-emptive with maintenance?

Also I'm guessing those are miles in the first column?

chuyrobles

Affirm on the miles. If you take out the brakes and wheel bearing/hub parts, it's mostly preventive maintenance except for the oil-line, radiator and alternator issues. Really, not too bad for a first year model.

I forgot to mention the ongoing issue with the timing cover leak. On our car the leak is more accurately described as seepage - motor oil has never hit the ground but oil has collected and "coagulated" under the PS pump and on the block right over the passenger CV axle. The seepage was worse with 5/30 weight oil. At about 90K, I switched to 10/30 full synthetic and the slighter thicker weight oil greatly reduced the seepage. I've never had to put in make-up oil. Others have reported actual leaks and expensive repairs to replace the timing cover gasket.

tolian21

Its a used car, 12 year old.... maintenance records and inspections, the seller can just tell you to go to hell and sell it someone who does not ask all these questions.
I hate selling my used car through private sale, too much hassle